P90 muzzle speed 2350 ft/sYes, they have.
For use in the P90 PDW.
In short, a sub-machine gun.
When you hose somebody down with enough of them on full-auto fire, they probably do work.
Out of a handgun, they give slightly more velocity the the .22 WMR rimfire cartridge out of a rifle.
rc
well, FN FiveSeven pistol proved you don't need round nose to feed well, pointed feeds just fine
Out of a handgun, they give slightly more velocity the the .22 WMR rimfire cartridge out of a rifle.
Key word is reputed, not proven. Again, you're looking at groups that need armor penetrating capability. These groups are also using the P90 for it's high rate of fire, and compact size coupled with that AP capability; and they're only using the P90 is mission specific circumstances, not as a general issue weapon. Finally, as a civilian in the US, we can't even get the AP 5.7 cartridges that are available to LE and military.i already provided the link, under "Ammunition selection for self-defense, military, and law enforcement", quote:
"A number of law enforcement and military agencies have adopted the 5.7x28mm cartridge, which is reputed to cause considerable hydrostatic shock.[62][74] These agencies include the Navy SEALs[75] and the Federal Protective Service branch of the ICE.[76][77]"
That's because the FiveSeven was designed around the 5.7x28 cartridge. It's an exception to the rule, a statistical outlier.well, FN FiveSeven pistol proved you don't need round nose to feed well, pointed feeds just fine
They have been, and tremendously improved at that. Look at the vast improvements these hundred year old cartridges have undergone in the past 25 years. The infamous 1986 FBI Miami shootout is often cited as the impetus for the evolution of handgun terminal ballistic performance.there's no reason handgun round designed a hundred years ago can't be improved
Rimfire rifle like performance isn't the same thing as centerfire rifle like performance.You pass off getting rifle like performance out of a handgun as if it's a bad thing...
"Reputed".i already provided the link, under "Ammunition selection for self-defense, military, and law enforcement", quote:
"A number of law enforcement and military agencies have adopted the 5.7x28mm cartridge, which is reputed to cause considerable hydrostatic shock.[62][74] These agencies include the Navy SEALs[75] and the Federal Protective Service branch of the ICE.[76][77]"
When you're likely to face opponents wearing soft body armor, and you're restricted from using expanding ammo then the 5.7x28 is a good idea. Neither of those typically apply to civilians though.well, people believe in whatever they choose to believe, i for one believe NATO chose (almost) 5.7mm as replacement for 9mm for a good reason
Yeah... And as stated several times that good reason was to beat body armor, which was becoming a lot more common on the battlefield.well, people believe in whatever they choose to believe, i for one believe NATO chose (almost) 5.7mm as replacement for 9mm for a good reason
I think the original 9x19 was the DWM 121 or so grain truncated cone.RN is the most reliable feed shape while maintaining desired weight in the common magazine feed systems.
I believe the original German-designed cut-down rifle case 9mm luger used a 124gr rn FMJ..
We think it's not practical because most badguys that the average civilian will encounter probably won't have body armor. And even if they did, only Law Enforcement or the Military can buy armor piercing 5.7mm rounds.i don't know why people think penetrating body armor as not practical for civilian, BG is not going to stand there naked let you shoot him like gelatin, he will take cover hide behind everyting he can find and wear thick cloth or even body armor, AP is a good thing, round nose is a bad thing, imo
everything equal i'd think pointed is much better than round nosedWe think it's not practical because most badguys that the average civilian will encounter probably won't have body armor. And even if they did, only Law Enforcement or the Military can buy armor piercing 5.7mm rounds.
So it wouldn't help you much to have a FiveSeven if you did encounter a badguy wearing body armor.
As for other barriers or thick clothing, those round nose bullets are proven to do just fine. In fact, barrier penetration is a key testing requirement for many modern hollowpoints.
well don't put your words in my mouth, thank youWell, you'd think wrong then.
I can see you think the 5.7 is the best cartridge ever invented.
It isn't, except in specific circumstances already cited.
It probably works well for certain uses in full-auto P90 PDW's with AP ammo.
Neither of which are available to the common man.
rc
i just think pointy 5.7 is better than round 9
i don't know why people think penetrating body armor as not practical for civilian, BG is not going to stand there naked let you shoot him like gelatin, he will take cover hide behind everyting he can find and wear thick cloth or even body armor, AP is a good thing, round nose is a bad thing, imo
If the BG is hiding, I'm leaving my job is donei don't know why people think penetrating body armor as not practical for civilian, BG is not going to stand there naked let you shoot him like gelatin, he will take cover hide behind everyting he can find and wear thick cloth or even body armor, AP is a good thing, round nose is a bad thing, imo
i 2nd that, i hope there are more companies giving us 5.7 option, more option is always a good thingThe 5.7x28 has not gotten the attention that it may deserve. When there is enough demand that Winchester and federal make both range and SD ammo in that caliber that will be the next step. Then, we will need a couple of the big name gun manufactures to chamber for it, like Glock and Ruger.
I have seen the ammo at my local Walmart.
i really don't get this, the BG breaks your door, you hear it, you grab your 9mm, he sees you, life and death, he hides behind door/table/shelf/fridge/... and starts firing, you shoot back, but, the round 9mm can't penetrate as well as 5.7, may skid off all kinds of angled surface, don't you wish your bullet has pointy nose and penetrate better?If the BG is hiding, I'm leaving my job is done