Why is 7x57 (AKA 7mm Mauser or 275 Rigby) not more popular?

[Balrog]

I hadnt ever thought much about 7x57, but was reading about it recently, and it looks on paper that it would be as good as other deer caliber rifle cartridges, but perhaps with less recoil. Has it ever been more popular?

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Well, if you were in a Latin American country before WWII, it was almost the defacto military standard there for several decades.

My dad had a Loewe Mauser M93 Spanish long rifle purchased in the '50s through Interarmco that I wish I'd kept (and that he'd stored better!)

I just officially acquired my first 7x57 yesterday in the form of a Mexican FN M1924 Mauser short rifle, my late wife's Christmas gift. Due to the temporary dearth of reloading brass, I reformed a few cases of .270 Winchester to tide me over until more new cases are available.

Ruger offered the No.1 in 7x57 for awhile, but I think cartridges like the 7mm-08 and .270 WSM have stolen much of the 7x57's appeal in the sporting arena. Now that I have a set of dies as a good excuse, I'm seriously considering having a Remage barrel made for me by McGowen in 7x57.

 

[35 Whelen]

It used to be a fairly popular cartridge. Like so many older cartridges it was never loaded by factories to its full potential. Handloaded, it can run a 140 gr. bullet around 2850 fps and a 160 gr. around 2750. I've hunted with one a fair amount an even shot my first bull elk with one.

35W

 

[d2wing]

The 7x57 and .303 British were very popular in the 1950's and 60', along with the thousands of surplus rifles that shot them. Many of those rifles were converted to sporting rifles. It was a cottage industry. But things have moved on in the last 75 years. Yes, it is a great deer/Elk cartridge. I shoot the more modern version, a 7-08.

 

[.38 Special]

I think it still is somewhat popular in custom rifles - higher end blue-and-walnut jobs - and also in youth rifles.

Overall, though, why is any cartridge popular or unpopular? Advertising, pop culture, internet... Right now, everyone wants to be a sniper or maybe special forces, so useful old cartridges take a back seat. If the next trend ends up being nostalgia...

 

[.308 Norma]

Has it ever been more popular?

It used to be a fairly popular cartridge.

Yep, when I started big game hunting (in the early '60s) the 7mm Mausers were a lot more popular than the "newfangled" (and recently introduced) 7mm Remington Magnums that few of the folks I knew could afford.

 

[Jim Watson]

Like so many older cartridges it was never loaded by factories to its full potential.

Sure it was, to the full potential of a Spanish Mauser action. Overloading in "strong modern actions" is very fine if you know where to stop.

 

[jdsingleshot]

As a group, humans are always looking for faster, more powerful, more accurate, more efficient, shinier and newer. We are never content with what we have.

As individuals, some of us have learned to be happy with what works. I have nine rifles. The newest caliber is .222 Rem. Next newest is .30-06. The 7x57 is one of my favorites. It does what I need it to do at any range that I have any excuse to shoot it.

The fastest cartridges sacrifice bore life, but those who want faster often care nothing about any long-term issue.

Blackout and Creedmore cartridges do slower or quieter or simply fit the Lego receivers that some older shells don't. Slower and quieter can be done with pretty much any small-bore gun.

Mostly new chamberings sell new guns. It's all about money.

 

[someguy2800]

7mm-08 killed it, and then 6.5CM killed 7mm-08.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Because short and fat is cool in the shooting community. My first big game rifle at age 14 was a Spanish 1916 in 7x57mm. I am now working on a custom left-handed 98 action set-up in the same round. When I get a .30 cal magnum, it will be the .300 H&H, nothing newer. Even at 47, the trendy cartridges du jour really do nothing for me.

 

[jmr40]

Over the last 120+ years 7X57 as well as 6.5X55 have been made by many manufacturers, mostly with very loose manufacturing tolerances. Factory ammo for both is anemic. It would be pure luck to find an off the shelf rifle that shot factory ammo accurately and with anywhere near their potential power. But for the 1st 20 years or so after the end of WW-2 surplus rifles in 7X57 were dirt cheap.

The 7mm-08 duplicates 7X57 and 6.5CM duplicates 6.5X55 performance, but with rifles made with tight tolerances and well-made factory ammo.

If you're the type of person that likes to tinker it is possible to put together a custom rifle in either, handload for them and match or even slightly surpass what 7-08 and 6.5X55 does. But if you want to pick up a rifle and ammo off the shelf there is no reason to choose the older cartridges.

 

[35 Whelen]

Sure it was, to the full potential of a Spanish Mauser action. Overloading in "strong modern actions" is very fine if you know where to stop.

What is "overloading"?

If someone loads a 45-70 to be fired in an 1895 Marlin, but not an 1873 Springfield, are they "overloading"? If they load a 45 Colt to be fired in a Ruger Blackhawk but not a 140 year old Colt SAA, are they "overloading"? If they load a 7x57mm to exceed the original ballistics, but still stay within SAAMI recommendations, are they "overloading"?

Asking for a friend.

35W

 

[Bcwitt]

I had a Winchester 70 featherweight in 7x57. Great gun. The 7x08rem,7x57 & 280rem are all very similar. 708s usually have a slower twist, meant for lighter varmint/target bullets. A 280 is twisted for medium weight bullets(140-145) (to compete w Winchester's 130gr 270.) Original bullets for 7x57 were very heavy. Thus, suitable for heavy game in close quarters. They each have there place.

 

[rabid wombat]

It also ‘birthed’ the wildcat 257 Roberts….

 

[.455_Hunter]

Some of the new cartridge devotees get all pinchy-faced when you point out the 7x57 in a long action has similar advantages to a 6.5 Manbun in a short action, namely the ability to load long, high-BC projectiles and still be within the action's max OAL requirements.

 

[Jim Watson]

What is "overloading"?

If someone loads a 45-70 to be fired in an 1895 Marlin, but not an 1873 Springfield, are they "overloading"? If they load a 45 Colt to be fired in a Ruger Blackhawk but not a 140 year old Colt SAA, are they "overloading"? If they load a 7x57mm to exceed the original ballistics, but still stay within SAAMI recommendations, are they "overloading"?

Yes, yes, and I'm looking.
OK, I do not see a pressure tested reload any faster than SAAMI or cataloged factory loads.
I do not see a "modern" load as fast as what Western was claiming in 1939, but they were probably shooting a 30" military rifle, not a 24" SAAMI.

It also ‘birthed’ the wildcat 257 Roberts….

.257 Roberts is not, was not a wildcat, it is a factory load developed by Remington. The wildcats on the 7mm case were the .25 Roberts in two versions from Neidner and Griffin & Howe. Three different chambers, ammo not interchangeable.

 

[CapnMac]

I think cartridges like the 7mm-08 and .270 WSM have stolen much of the 7x57's appeal in the sporting arena.

THis ^^^probably deserves repeating.

We shooting types have been flirting with 7mm rifle rounds, from around 45mm to 60mm long cases. The wide array of rounds just labeled "280" being a good example, along with all the "6.8" labeled loads. And, of course, none of "us" can quite agree on whether it ought be a 'milder' military round, say 7x45; or an anti-game lightning bolt round closer to 7x60. So, what have "we" done? Well we've brought out every variant between those envelope edges. So, we get contrasts like .276Ross and the 280nato, and the 280rem, even the 276pedersen.

The 7x57 is kind of a middle-of-the-road answer.

Which has onuses like being "old school" or "not made here" to bias against the thing. It did not help that it was introduced at a time when militaries were torn between 6.5 loadings and "full power" cal..30 loads, so the 7x57 started as a bit of an orphan as was. The world then embraced all manner of "intermediate" cartridges, with varying amounts of public acceptance (or insistence).

And, of course, we ought not criticize, nor ostracize, any round a person adheres to successfully. Now, how the ammo companies sort out the economics of cranking out only a few thousand of each of the various kinds of thing we shoot, whether as assembled ammo or components is a different thing.

Perhaps, all that 7x57 'needs' is a self-loading platform, say something based on the AR-18--like as not, the hardest part would be engineering the magazine (something that gets skimped upon all too often).

 

[westernrover]

It's un-American.

 

[Bwana John]

Because they don’t fit a short action, and don’t require a long action.

”Perhaps, all that 7x57 'needs' is a self-loading platform, say something based on the AR-18--like as not, the hardest part would be engineering the magazine (something that gets skimped upon all too often).“
FN-49

 

[luv2safari]

Well, if you were in a Latin American country before WWII, it was almost the defacto military standard there for several decades.

My dad had a Loewe Mauser M93 Spanish long rifle purchased in the '50s through Interarmco that I wish I'd kept (and that he'd stored better!)

I just officially acquired my first 7x57 yesterday in the form of a Mexican FN M1924 Mauser short rifle, my late wife's Christmas gift. Due to the temporary dearth of reloading brass, I reformed a few cases of .270 Winchester to tide me over until more new cases are available.

Ruger offered the No.1 in 7x57 for awhile, but I think cartridges like the 7mm-08 and .270 WSM have stolen much of the 7x57's appeal in the sporting arena. Now that I have a set of dies as a good excuse, I'm seriously considering having a Remage barrel made for me by McGowen in 7x57.

They also offered it in the 77. They had accuracy troubles during that time...barrels.

Metrics were always a tough sell in 'murrica. Our 270 walked all over the 7 Mauser in popularity, and the cock-on-closing early Mausers have always been unpopular here. European rifles chambered in 7X57 have always been expensive.

I find it ironic that now 7X57 chambered rifles and 16 gauge shotguns garner premiums. I love them both.

 

[Bwana John]

They also offered it in the 77. They had accuracy troubles during that time...barrels.

Winchester M-70, and Remington 700 also were chambered for the 7x57

 

[Jim Watson]

Perhaps, all that 7x57 'needs' is a self-loading platform,

A friend has a 7mm SAFN 49 but I don’t think that is what you meant.

They also offered it in the 77. They had accuracy troubles during that time...barrels.

Another friend went ‘round and ‘round with Ruger over one of them.
First return got the muzzle crowned with no significant improvement.
Second pass got a new barrel. The test target looked fair… until he noticed it was shot at 50 yards, not 100.
The rifle now wears a Douglas barrel in .280, taking no chances just to save the cost of dies and brass.
He reported that a non-magnum 7 mm will NOT bounce off elk hide.

 

[redneck2]

Back to maybe the 70’s or so and before, shooters that I knew didn’t have a bazillion rifles like we do now. Perhaps it is because I grew up in a rural farming area, but my uncle had maybe a half dozen center fires and that was more than anybody else I knew of. So, you had divided loyalties between a lot of basically equivalent calibers. There is nothing any of the 7mm’s, .30 calibers etc won’t do that the next one won’t do just as well for 95%+ of hunters. And guys then were hunters, not target shooters. This was also the heyday of the Weatherby, so faster was better.

As noted above, I suspect many of the guys shooting then had been on the receiving end of the 7x57 during WW II and weren’t keen on owning one.

 

[codytrucker]

It's a great cartridge that time has not been fair to . A big part of that is the perception that it is to long for short actions and doesn't take full advantage of long actions . Being held back in power by the ammo makers doesn't help . I kind of thought with the long bullets in efficient cases trend maybe the 57MM cases might make a comeback , but its not looking good . To bad , at one time the 7MM was both feared and respected on the battlefield , and used to take all kinds of game , up to Karamojo Bell who thought it was fine for elephant . I think in his test the 175 grain full metal jacket rounds penetrated straighter and deeper then anything else he tried .

I wished I would of bought a model 70 FWT a few years ago when they chambered it in 7X57 .

 

[.455_Hunter]

As noted above, I suspect many of the guys shooting then had been on the receiving end of the 7x57 during WW II and weren’t keen on owning one.

Where did we face adversaries armed primarily with 7x57mm weapons in WWII?

Now if your are talking about 1898, then yes, I guess.