Rob96
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Ahhh I forgot about the fire at Hogdon.
Why is powder so difficult to get?
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KansasSasquatch
Member
Hodgdon didn't have a fire. ADI, who makes many of Hodgdon branded powders, did have a fire around May (I think) of last year. It supposedly only effected the production of Universal Clays and the Australian equivalent. I've seen International Clays and Clays on shelves, although not often, since then. But the one time I've seen Universal was shortly after the fire happened and I have to imagine that it was powder that had been shipped to Hodgdon for packaging shortly before the fire. There's plenty of other ADI made powders still hitting shelves so it obviously didn't effect all of there manufacturing capabilities. They had originally estimated that the problem would be fixed by the start of this year, however, that estimation has been pushed back at least once to my knowledge. I'm not going to dig up all of the links (again) but the information is out there if you care to be informed.
But fire or not, that info doesn't really pertain to the original question.
ETA: Back on topic. One more piece of info is that most of the powder companies aren't taking any applications for new wholesalers/retailers. I know of at least one guy locally who has contacted both Hodgdon and Alliant about carrying their products. They both turned him away saying that they can't keep current clients in ample supply and there's no way they could supply him. So right now, if you haven't been carrying powder for a few years, you pretty much have no chance of getting your business in the game right now while the powder drought is happening.
Now the powder companies might make special exceptions if they don't have any retailers carrying their products in a particular area, but if you currently have at least one in your area, you aren't likely to get a new one anytime soon.
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Stormin.40
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Maybe it depends on who you are. In WI they have added Fleet Farm (hardware/farm supply) to their distributor list. Less than a year ago they started carrying reloading supplies. I have purchased both alliant and hodgon powders from them. Maybe they had their negotiations done by the time things got short.
We even have some gas stations in then area that carry primers and powder, they have been carrying these for a long time so it isn't anything new.
We even have some gas stations in then area that carry primers and powder, they have been carrying these for a long time so it isn't anything new.
KansasSasquatch
Member
Fleet Farm is a chain with over 30 stores. That brings buying power and a larger customer base to the table. The guy I was talking about is just a small time FFL dealer who's fairly new to the business. Those types of dealers aren't likely to be able to get into selling powder right now, unless they do like many other small shops already do--buy up a ton of whatever they can get in from a large distributor like Powder Valley. But if they do that their prices aren't likely to be the most competitive.
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
On the "why don't more places carry powder and reloading supplies" I'd have to say that places that specialize in reloading supplies like Powder Valley and Midway USA can't keep it in stock and I'd suspect that they are at the top of the food chain for distribution.
If they can't get any, the chances of the local LGS, sporting goods, or general goods store getting any is further down the list.
I think it'd be a exercise in logistic frustration trying to buy it for resale in those cases.
VooDoo
If they can't get any, the chances of the local LGS, sporting goods, or general goods store getting any is further down the list.
I think it'd be a exercise in logistic frustration trying to buy it for resale in those cases.
VooDoo
mdm
Member
Powder is a product sought by a small customer base.
Powder is a product that requires special handling and shipping.
Powder is a product that requires special storage considerations, esp. at the wholesale/retail locations.
Powder, like it or not, is a product that falls into what many consider a politically incorrect activity (anything that is related to guns).
Add all these things together and you will begin to wonder why we are able to find powder in as many retail locations as we do.
When I was growing up in the '50s/'60s, most hardware stores sold firearms and ammunition. As a kid, I had no idea if these stores stocked any powder or other reloading supplies. You would often find stores that had guns, esp. shotguns, that were branded for that store. Over the years the number of these stores has shrunk considerably. Part of this is due to the reduction in the number of local, family owned stores and the increase in the number of chain stores like Home Depot and Lowes.
Powder is a product that requires special handling and shipping.
Powder is a product that requires special storage considerations, esp. at the wholesale/retail locations.
Powder, like it or not, is a product that falls into what many consider a politically incorrect activity (anything that is related to guns).
Add all these things together and you will begin to wonder why we are able to find powder in as many retail locations as we do.
When I was growing up in the '50s/'60s, most hardware stores sold firearms and ammunition. As a kid, I had no idea if these stores stocked any powder or other reloading supplies. You would often find stores that had guns, esp. shotguns, that were branded for that store. Over the years the number of these stores has shrunk considerably. Part of this is due to the reduction in the number of local, family owned stores and the increase in the number of chain stores like Home Depot and Lowes.
oneounceload
member
Part of it is also due to the fact that after WWII, many farm folks moved to bigger cities searching for good paying jobs and then the start of the "planned communities" and suburbia began eliminating a lot of hunting areas. Add in LBJ's "Great Society" and the progressive take-over of the education system and guns started falling out of favor for many folks, not because they hated them, they just didn't see as much of a need. Many stores that used to cater to shooters and hunters (A&F, Sears, Monkey Wards, JC Penney come to mind) have completely moved away from them. Big chains like Cabela's et al put the hurt on mom and pop locations. Those that survived now have to contend with the internet and gunbroker, Bud's and the like. Then throw in the government contracts for military, homeland and the hundreds of Federal LEO agencies plus all the state and local LEo needs, and there is only so much to go around and places to get it.
Potatohead
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Now that sounds like my kind of town!
oneounceload
member
When I lived out West we had a major drug store chain (now owned by CVS or Walgreens) where you could go in and buy a handgun or long gun, ammo, reloading supplies and equipment, then go to the other corner and buy whatever beer, wine or booze tripped your trigger and then go pick up any mood meds or painkillers from the pharmacy section - all in one trip. There was NEVER an incident from anyone going crazy or what not
Gas stations and pharmacies that carry guns and reloading components! I love it!
I think the increase in urbanization decreased the everyday occurrence of firearms and components, and made folks scared, instead of respectful, of firearms.
However, the difficulty in getting powder, etc., suggests that the 'powers that be' may want it to be difficult to get this sort of stuff. Maybe this is the case, but the fact that some gas stations and pharmacies carry this stuff suggests this not to be the case. I wish my local CVS had the sense to carry gunpowder.
I think the increase in urbanization decreased the everyday occurrence of firearms and components, and made folks scared, instead of respectful, of firearms.
However, the difficulty in getting powder, etc., suggests that the 'powers that be' may want it to be difficult to get this sort of stuff. Maybe this is the case, but the fact that some gas stations and pharmacies carry this stuff suggests this not to be the case. I wish my local CVS had the sense to carry gunpowder.
thecarfarmer
Member
Well, I don't know where the OP is... if he were here in the Seattle area, I'd tell him that he can have any powder he wants. As long as it's one of the few rifle powders up at Cabela's.
The guys at the Cabela's stores in Mukelshoot and Olympia (an hour north or south of Seattle, respectively) have told me that they can't seem to even obtain pistol powders.
BTW, I was able to pick up a couple 50 round boxes of .22LR at the Olympia Cabela's last week. $2.99/box. Nice to see that they aren't price gouging - even if they don't have enough to let everybody buy as much as they'd like.
One thing I heard posited recently is that a number of LGS owners actually do manage to get in much sought-after supplies (primers, powder, .22LR, etc.). But they just move straight to selling it on gunbroker, and charge filthy prices for it anonymously.
Makes sense, and I suspect there are some (not all, maybe not most - just some) who do this.
Just my .02.
Now, does anybody have any extra Bullseye kicking around?
-Bill
The guys at the Cabela's stores in Mukelshoot and Olympia (an hour north or south of Seattle, respectively) have told me that they can't seem to even obtain pistol powders.
BTW, I was able to pick up a couple 50 round boxes of .22LR at the Olympia Cabela's last week. $2.99/box. Nice to see that they aren't price gouging - even if they don't have enough to let everybody buy as much as they'd like.
One thing I heard posited recently is that a number of LGS owners actually do manage to get in much sought-after supplies (primers, powder, .22LR, etc.). But they just move straight to selling it on gunbroker, and charge filthy prices for it anonymously.
Makes sense, and I suspect there are some (not all, maybe not most - just some) who do this.
Just my .02.
Now, does anybody have any extra Bullseye kicking around?
-Bill
spitballer
Member
I looked up reloading supplies on the internet and started making some calls. Found a place that generally has a good inventory, but I have to buy it in person. It's also a good ways from here and I have to use a day off to make the drive.
I'm not sure why powder is so difficult to get but I do know that sellers are terrified that the next IED is going to be made with powder from their shop, and they won't sell to just anyone who walks in off the street. At least, not the guy that I buy from. Good luck to you.
I'm not sure why powder is so difficult to get but I do know that sellers are terrified that the next IED is going to be made with powder from their shop, and they won't sell to just anyone who walks in off the street. At least, not the guy that I buy from. Good luck to you.
KansasSasquatch
Member
I wouldn't buy from a seller with that attitude, at least not if they won't sell it based on fears of IED's. There's much more dangerous chemicals that are readily available to anyone, that could do much more damage than smokeless gunpowder. Anyone afraid of selling to the general public for that reason doesn't have their head screwed on straight and would never get a dime of my money.
Anyone who brings up the Boston Marathon bombing should do a little more research.
Just when I resigned myself to $24.00 and up being the new norm for gun powder, if you can find it, and cursing the 'establishment' for purposefully making gun powder difficult to come by, I walk into the LGS and discover he just obtained 8 metal containers, sealed and never opened, of IMR3031 (3), 4064 (2) and 4895 (3), at $15.00 each! I offered $100 for all 8 lbs of powder and we settled on $110 for all 8 lbs. I guess sometimes things turn up at the right prices when you least expect it.
I don't think it's specifically to the local gun shops. Granted I don't have a Gander or Cabelas (at least where it's close that it's worth it just to find out they don't have it), but when I did visit, they didn't have much anything either.
Look online at the popular component sellers. They pretty much don't have anything in stock powder wise on an on-going basis. I bet the big name ammo producers compete with the same powder suppliers that supply the reloading powder companies. In fact I read that ATK runs a join venture with St Marks that makes a lot of bulk powders that supply the various powder companies too. ATK also owns Blazer and Federal.
Perhaps mass production rate of powder is less elastic than manufacturing finished cartridges (just a hunch since manufacturing powder inherently seems very dangerous). If the major cartridge manufacturers have a sway and priority to powder before powder companies with the same supplier, that could explain why powder to consumers is so scare?
Just my theory.
Look online at the popular component sellers. They pretty much don't have anything in stock powder wise on an on-going basis. I bet the big name ammo producers compete with the same powder suppliers that supply the reloading powder companies. In fact I read that ATK runs a join venture with St Marks that makes a lot of bulk powders that supply the various powder companies too. ATK also owns Blazer and Federal.
Perhaps mass production rate of powder is less elastic than manufacturing finished cartridges (just a hunch since manufacturing powder inherently seems very dangerous). If the major cartridge manufacturers have a sway and priority to powder before powder companies with the same supplier, that could explain why powder to consumers is so scare?
Just my theory.
jcwit
member
Might have the same problem as .22 rimfire? Suppose?
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