Why so many hunting rifles with proprietary detachable magazines?

[S.Crockett]

Here's a "flush fit" ProMag. I would change out the follower to a MagPul anti-tilt.

Can't find any pictures or length description, to verify "flush fit" claims.

ProMag AR-15 .223 5 Round Magazine - Flush Fit, Blued Finish

This magazine body is made of heat treated steel with a black oxide finish for durability in the field. Purchase this AR-15 .223 5 round magazine here.

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

Edit: I can't even find it on ProMag's website anymore, maybe they discontinued it.

Pro Mags are junk.

 

[BreechFace]

Pro Mags are junk.

Agreed.

 

[CraigC]

I "roamed" for somewhere around 150+ miles this hunting season. I would never buy a rifle that didn't have a detachable magazine, unless it was just a ridiculously good deal for some reason, then I'd be converting it.

Then you should know better than anyone how uncomfortable they are to have a magazine hanging down right at the balance point where you carry it.

 

[bearcreek]

Then you should know better than anyone how uncomfortable they are to have a magazine hanging down right at the balance point where you carry it.

Not uncomfortable at all. The magazine hangs down about half an inch and it's smooth.

 

[d2wing]

Have there been any rifles made in the last 50-60 years that take clips?

That is the correct name for what some call Detachable box magazines.

 

[Boom Vang]

I prefer a blind magazine with no floorplate on most hunting rifles. Less weight, and no way to accidentally dump rounds. Kimber Montana has that and it's my favorite.

 

[bearcreek]

That is the correct name for what some call Detachable box magazines.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. In today's world, a magazine contains the cartridges completely, other than the top one and it stays in the gun during use. A clip leaves the cartridges exposed and in most (please note the bolded word) cases does not stay in the gun during use, but rather is used to load either a detachable or non detachable magazine.

 

[Elkins45]

I’m fine with a blind magazine for a hunting rifle. I can always eject the chambered round and close the bolt on a full magazine for transport or storage. The bottom 2-3 rounds in my Savage 110 would probably have been in there for a decade now if I didn’t occasionally take it to the range to verify zero.

 

[zaitcev]

All this discussion got me thinking that I ought to make a new lower for my Tikka with a double stack blind magazine. It's such a pain in the butt to remove their stupid single stack magazine. The latch is probably the worst ever, retention is not positive, capacity is only 3 rounds (in 30-06), the thing is super flimsy and requires loading from the front, not to mention there's a real hazard of dropping it into the mud.

 

[Crosshair]

Especially, today's version of the STANAG magazine with the anti-tilt followers. If AR magazines were babied like proprietary magazines, they would also last the life of the firearm. But they are not they are ran hard and put away wet; why? Because they are cheap due to the massive economies of scale afforded the AR15.

What color is the sky in your world? You don't need to baby AK, Mini-14 magazines, FAL magazines, etc. I commonly find AR magazines abandoned and used as targets at the local range I help maintain. Never find other kinds of magazines. Other than the bullet holes, they have no sign of being ran hard or put away wet. Back during the federal AWB, AR feed lip straightening tools were sold at Cabelas. Nothing like that existed for Mini-14 or AK magazines.

That the AR magazines is flimsy should not be a controversial thing to say. No more than saying that the Mini-14 is badly overgassed from the factory or the AKs stock is a bit too short from the factory.

 

[bearcreek]

All this discussion got me thinking that I ought to make a new lower for my Tikka with a double stack blind magazine. It's such a pain in the butt to remove their stupid single stack magazine. The latch is probably the worst ever, retention is not positive, capacity is only 3 rounds (in 30-06), the thing is super flimsy and requires loading from the front, not to mention there's a real hazard of dropping it into the mud.

It's amazing to me sometimes how vastly different people's conclusions can be about this stuff. I've got a Tikka on my desk right now as I type this and I can't imagine how the magazine could be any easier to use. As far as dropping it in the mud, I'm not seeing how it would be any harder to drop loose rounds in the mud than it would be to drop this magazine. Guess it's good that we can all pick which system we want.

 

[BreechFace]

What color is the sky in your world? You don't need to baby AK, Mini-14 magazines, FAL magazines, etc. I commonly find AR magazines abandoned and used as targets at the local range I help maintain. Never find other kinds of magazines. Other than the bullet holes, they have no sign of being ran hard or put away wet. Back during the federal AWB, AR feed lip straightening tools were sold at Cabelas. Nothing like that existed for Mini-14 or AK magazines.

That the AR magazines is flimsy should not be a controversial thing to say. No more than saying that the Mini-14 is badly overgassed from the factory or the AKs stock is a bit too short from the factory.

Mine's blue, your's must be a drab shade of grey.

I've rarely if at all seen abandoned magazines at the ranges I use (have to think back on that, but not really coming up with an instance). It's a controversial thing to say because it's not accurate.

So your saying that the STANAG magazine from reputable companies are not reliable or resilient? The magazine that is used around the world by countless countries in adverse conditions on two way ranges. OK...

I don't anticipate an agreement on this topic is inbound, so I'll just leave my comments at that.

 

[bearcreek]

Mine's blue, your's must be a drab shade of grey.

I've rarely if at all seen abandoned magazines at the ranges I use (have to think back on that, but not really coming up with an instance). It's a controversial thing to say because it's not accurate.

So your saying that the STANAG magazine from reputable companies are not reliable or resilient? The magazine that is used around the world by countless countries in adverse conditions on two way ranges. OK...

I don't anticipate an agreement on this topic is inbound, so I'll just leave my comments at that.

My general rule of thumb is that, if I can't conclusively verify something like this myself, I listen to the advice of people who can. I can't afford to really fully test different types of magazines myself (I've probably only put 20,000-ish rds through AR/M4 mags), but I've trained under plenty of people who have. You won't find someone (at least I haven't encountered any) who has fought extensively using an AR/M4, in the last 30+ years who doesn't still like the platform, including the magazines. Some have their brand preferences within those magazines, but they all still like the basic concept. That, to me, is worth something. Internet forum opinions, from folks with no/unverified credentials are worth nothing.

 

[CraigC]

Internet forum opinions, from folks with no/unverified credentials are worth nothing.

Then why even be here?

 

[S.Crockett]

Have there been any rifles made in the last 50-60 years that take clips?

That is the correct name for what some call Detachable box magazines.

Noop. …. The M1 Garand actually has a “blind magazine.” John G. designed the magazine of the M1 it to be fed with an 8-rd “en bloc clip,” loaded forcefully in from the top. The clip seats in the magazine.

Never confuse the device known as a “clip” which, in some form, holds the cartridges to be fired (e.g., the 10-round “stripper clip” of an SKS) with the “magazine” into which said rounds will be loaded.

Otherwise, people will roll their eyes and write you off as a deer-camp Fuddley stuck in 1979.

 

[Jim Watson]

It has fallen off as shooters modernize, but there used to be a lot of hunting for a replacement magazine for Grandpa’s Gun. Or even a bolt.

 

[bearcreek]

Then why even be here?

Pretty simple really. My hunting often involves things like getting in and out of a vehicle several times in a day, riding a dirt bike with the rifle shoved down in a pack and hiking anywhere from 1 to 15+ miles per day. Being able to load and unload the rifle, with only three things to handle (the rifle, the magazine, and the round from the chamber) rather than the rifle and 4 loose cartridges, is real handy, especially in the dark or while wearing gloves. I bring an additional magazine loaded with cheaper, ball ammo, in the event I encounter a wolf or coyote that I don't want to waste expensive hunting ammo on. Having mags makes it easy to quickly swap from one ammo to the other. So, it's quicker and easier to load and unload, doesn't make the rifle bulkier or heavier and it's sturdy and reliable. I've yet to see or read about any advantages to the alternative.

 

[CraigC]

Pretty simple really. My hunting often involves things like getting in and out of a vehicle several times in a day, riding a dirt bike with the rifle shoved down in a pack and hiking anywhere from 1 to 15+ miles per day. Being able to load and unload the rifle, with only three things to handle (the rifle, the magazine, and the round from the chamber) rather than the rifle and 4 loose cartridges, is real handy, especially in the dark or while wearing gloves. I bring an additional magazine loaded with cheaper, ball ammo, in the event I encounter a wolf or coyote that I don't want to waste expensive hunting ammo on. Having mags makes it easy to quickly swap from one ammo to the other. So, it's quicker and easier to load and unload, doesn't make the rifle bulkier or heavier and it's sturdy and reliable. I've yet to see or read about any advantages to the alternative.

That has nothing to do with my question.

 

[bearcreek]

That has nothing to do with my question.

Oh? I thought you were asking why use a rifle with a detachable mag. Was that not what you meant?

Edit: I think I get it now. You were asking why I'm here, since this would qualify as internet advice. That's a simple answer too. I find it interesting.

 

[d2wing]

Noop. …. The M1 Garand actually has a “blind magazine.” John G. designed the magazine of the M1 it to be fed with an 8-rd “en bloc clip,” loaded forcefully in from the top. The clip seats in the magazine.

Never confuse the device known as a “clip” which, in some form, holds the cartridges to be fired (e.g., the 10-round “stripper clip” of an SKS) with the “magazine” into which said rounds will be loaded.

Otherwise, people will roll their eyes and write you off as a deer-camp Fuddley stuck in 1979.

Perhaps they will. That is a good thing. I am still correct.

 

[bearcreek]

Perhaps they will. That is a good thing. I am still correct.

According to whom?

 

[d2wing]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. In today's world, a magazine contains the cartridges completely, other than the top one and it stays in the gun during use. A clip leaves the cartridges exposed and in most (please note the bolded word) cases does not stay in the gun during use, but rather is used to load either a detachable or non detachable magazine.

Not according to the dictionary or historical use. That was made up by a gun writer like most a blow hard.

 

[bearcreek]

Not according to the dictionary or historical use. That was made up by a gun writer like most a blow hard.

Interesting. So,
-Box-like device that contains the cartridges, a spring and a follower and gets inserted into the weapon where cartridges are then fed from it into the chamber = clip
-Device that holds the case heads of the cartridges and is used to load the aforementioned box = also clip?

 

[LoonWulf]

All this discussion got me thinking that I ought to make a new lower for my Tikka with a double stack blind magazine. It's such a pain in the butt to remove their stupid single stack magazine. The latch is probably the worst ever, retention is not positive, capacity is only 3 rounds (in 30-06), the thing is super flimsy and requires loading from the front, not to mention there's a real hazard of dropping it into the mud.

No feed rails in the action, you would need to do something like savages centerfeed/double stack mag.
Actually adapting one of those boxes and followers to a custom stock might be just the ticket.

I did that with the 6-284 arisaka i had.

 

[mcb]

Thinking about this I realized I have hunted successfully with the following cartridge rifle actions:
Falling block w/ no magazine
Bolt action w/ no magazine single-shot
Bolt action w/ tube fed magazine
Bolt action w/ internal box magazine (both single stack and double stack)
Bolt action w/ detachable magazine ( both single stack and double stack )
Pump action w/ tube fed magazine
Lever action w/ tube fed magazine (side gate and tube loaded )
Semi-auto w/ tube fed magazine
Semi-auto w/ internal box magazine (double stack only )
Semi-auto w/ detachable box magazine magazine (both single stack, and double stack )

I really need a magazine fed pump and lever action...

Variety is the spice of life!