Why so many hunting rifles with proprietary detachable magazines?

[Chuck R.]

When I picked up my CZ 600 Alpha, I knew it had a detachable box magazine, 5 rounds in .308. Doesn't stick out much.

However, the only place I have shot it is at the range.

I did occur to me that the magazine IS detachable, and it might be good to have a spare or two, so I picked up two spares from CZ-USA. Will I ever need them? As long as the supplied mag keeps working, probably not, but if I DO ever get out hunting with someone to show this old dog some new tricks, I will likely have one spare stuffed in a pocket somewhere...just in case.
And that brings me to my question - how many people reading this thread have ever had a fixed magazine break/fail? I will assume it's not very many.

I also like how the Alpha mag can be "locked" in and loaded like a fixed internal.. I'm going to get another one when I can find one, but with the locking feature it's really not an issue.

With a couple exceptions I prefer fixed flush magazines. My coyote rifles have detachable mags because we're often in and out of vehicles to hit different spots, and the 7600 I put together for deer drives for the same reason. Other than that I prefer hinged mags.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Big safety factor IMHO. I suspect a lot of hunters are not real gun guys, not that familiar with them in general or their particular ones, don't spend a lot of time at the range. Detachable magazine ? You drop the magazine-put it in a safe place-remove the round from the chamber, either leave the bolt open or close it, put the safety on, you're good to go. Unloading a blind magazine takes a certain amount of dexterity.

 

[Atavar]

In my state and probably others you cannot transport a loaded weapon. Clips solve that problem and allow quick reloads.

Clips don’t solve that problem. Magazines might.

 

[westernrover]

Single shot for the win.

Seriously, if bolt-actions weren't half the price, generally more accurate, and better suited to optics, I wouldn't hesitate to use a Ruger No. 1. As it is, the biggest deterent to doing so is simply the fact that I already have seveal bolt-action rifles and I don't even get to use them enough, so I don't really want to buy another rifle of any kind. I just want to use the ones I already have. But if I did, a No. 1 would be at or near the top for hunting. Maybe another issue is the big-bore "Tropical" No. 1's with open sights have always been the most attractive to me, and I can hardly imagine hunting on a rare mule deer or pronghorn tag with one, much less a very scarce elk tag here where most shots are between 200 and 300 yards.

 

[Atavar]

Proprietary parts =$$$$$$

If it's detachable, many owners will want a spare. Blind mags don't generate any additional profits. Also, some folks think scopes and blind mags dont mix well- contrary to about 50 years of military service evidence, of course.

Ill take a reliable steel blind mag with a hinged floorplate ANYDAY over a flimsy plastic detachable.

This is one reason I love my BAR. I can drop the floorplate and detach the mag if I want, and I can carry a loaded spare mag in my pocket.

 

[sage5907]

I can't figure out why they are putting 10 round single stack detachable magazines on bolt rifles. Maybe the manufacturers don't trust double stack magazines to feed properly. That doesn't say much for their manufacturing skills. I would have thought if you were going to have a detachable magazine sticking down below the trigger guard it would hold more rounds. The Ruger precision rifle weighs 9.8 pounds with a 20 inch barrel and 10 round single stack magazine, and that's without a scope. Their 338 Lapua magnum weighs 15.2 pounds with a 5 round single stack magazine.

 

[CraigC]

I can't figure out why they are putting 10 round single stack detachable magazines on bolt rifles. Maybe the manufacturers don't trust double stack magazines to feed properly. That doesn't say much for their manufacturing skills. I would have thought if you were going to have a detachable magazine sticking down below the trigger guard it would hold more rounds. The Ruger precision rifle weighs 9.8 pounds with a 20 inch barrel and 10 round single stack magazine, and that's without a scope. Their 338 Lapua magnum weighs 15.2 pounds with a 5 round single stack magazine.

Because the AICS pattern magazines make it easy.

 

[Pat Riot]

I have only owned a couple of bolt action rifles. A Remington 673 .308 Winchester, A sporterized 1917 Springfield chambered in .270 Winchester and an Enfield No. 4 Mk 1.
The 673 had a hinged (dropping?) floor plate.
The 1917 had a blind 5 round magazine.
The Enfield a detachable (somewhat) magazine.
I used them all for deer hunting years ago. I didn’t care for any of them while hunting, to be honest.

While the 673 was quite annoying to unload, I only had 3 rounds in the gun. Chasing rounds on the tailgate is annoying.
I only carried 3 rounds in the 1917. Unloading that meant cycling each round into the chamber. Also annoying. Both those guns could hold 5 rounds in their magazines.
The Enfield with a modified 5 round mag went on one hunt. I liked the rifle, but my brother shot it much better than I did so I gave it to him.

I actually prefer lever guns for hunting and traipsing around in the woods acting like I am hunting. Sometimes I go hunting just to be out in the woods.

I now have a Ruger SFAR that I had intended to hunt with this past season but I had to send it back to Ruger. Maybe next deer season. I have carried it in the woods and I must admit it seems to carry well. I am hoping that I can get my hands on a 5 round Magpul mag for it. The 10 round mag is okay, but a 20 round mag looks huge hanging out the bottom on that gun. There is no mag size limit in WV.

My opinion of manufactures making proprietary mags for guns they design is good for them for engineering what works in their guns. Why should any manufacturer design their guns to use a mag they didn’t design? If a manufacturer designs the gun and the mag, if there is a problem they have no excuse why they can’t fix the problem, yes?

Sorry my post is somewhat scattered. I was thinking as I was typing after reading all the other posts.

I am very happy we have so many different guns to choose from with so many different options. I recall as a kid my Dad standing at the gun counter asking me, the Nimrod 8 year which gun he should choose, the Remington 700, the Winchester 70 or the Savage 110. All in 30.06 of course.

 

[sage5907]

Because the AICS pattern magazines make it easy.

Thank you. I read up on the AICS magazine. They didn't list any benefits for using this design. The company in England developed the pattern for their sniper rifles and other companies copied the design. They said if the magazine fits in the magazine well it should feed the rifle. That sounds logical.

 

[tdbmd]

I have been hunting with rifles for 42 years now, have never lost or had some kind of spontaneous magazine issue in that time. I do have some rifles with a blind magazine and floorplate also. Either is ok with me. Detachables are a bit easier to load and unload

 

[Legionnaire]

Interesting thread. My preference for hunting rifles has for many years been hinged floor plate. I thought detachable magazines were best suited to ARs and competition rifles. More recently I've warmed to detachable mags for field use, but I don't like mags that hang down well below the receiver on my hunting rifles. That different manufacturers of hunting rifles offer proprietary magazines doesn't bother me at all. I'm going to need, what, the original and one spare? Big deal. YMMV.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Proprietary parts =$$$$$$

If it's detachable, many owners will want a spare. Blind mags don't generate any additional profits. Also, some folks think scopes and blind mags dont mix well- contrary to about 50 years of military service evidence, of course.

Ill take a reliable steel blind mag with a hinged floorplate ANYDAY over a flimsy plastic detachable.

I agree, can't forget your magazine when it's attached. Get to the deer stand and realize you forgot it means you have a single shot and a lousy one at that. Provided you have ammo with you at all.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I agree, can't forget your magazine when it's attached.

I just leave the detachable magazine in the gun, LOL.

A person who buys a rifle with an attached magazine so that s/he won't forget said magazine is the same sort of person who would then forget to bring ammo for the rifle with the attached magazine. With that said, I have had people show up from Dallas to shoot on my range, after a 90 minute drive, only to realize they forgot their guns. I had a guy show up for a 1000 round pistol match that forgot his ammo. Those people are definitely out there.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Late to this party, but I have to chime in on a couple of points.

1) I don't understand the angst about how different manufacturers use different detachable magazines. Most of the available actions aren't built to standardized dimensions. They all take different stocks, different bolts, firing pins, etc. How boring would the world be if everything was the same? *cough* ARsareallthesamenomatteryourbuildspec *cough*

2) There are LOTS of old guns that turn up missing detachable magazines. (Bolts too .) While it isn't the norm, it happens often enough that it wasn't a huge surprise when I was working at a gun shop. And good luck turning up a magazine for something that's been out of production for even 25 years. A 100-year old design? Buy lottery tickets while you comb the auction and parts sites to find a replacement, and see which pays out first. Due to this experience, I switched from "never store a firearm with a magazine in it" to "better leave an empty magazine in it so you always have at least one".

3) I have one of those neat little CZ-527 micro-Mauser-esque bolt actions, and the one thing I'd change in a heart beat is to swap the 5-round detachable magazine for a 4 or 5 round internal box magazine with hinged floor-plate. It's a hunting/field walking rifle, quick magazine changes aren't a priority. The magazine sticking down right at the carry point is kind of a bummer. Not to mention it ruins the lines of an otherwise trim little carbine. Oh, the top couple of rounds feed pretty stiffly due to the pressure from the magazine spring too. Seriously, the magazine is the one blemish on an otherwise tidy package.

 

[Legionnaire]

@wanderinwalker, I agree with you on the 527. I had a beautiful specimen that was very accurate. Didn't like the detachable mag. I also didn't like the reversed safety. All my other hunting rifles are forward-to-fire and I figured it was a matter of time before that safety would delay a shot. One of the many I've sent on down the line.

 

[danez71]

....
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When I used an AR to hunt coyotes it was equipped with a five round mag that fit flush.
....
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Which mag did you use?

 

[BreechFace]

I’ve never seen a flush fit AR15 magazine. All the 5 rounders I’ve seen hang down at least a 1/2” or so.

 

[danez71]

I’ve never seen a flush fit AR15 magazine. All the 5 rounders I’ve seen hang down at least a 1/2” or so.

Probably to grab onto....?

I'm interested in What is the shortest AR mag?

I have a Ruger American Ranch with the AR mag.

I rarely carry a rifle at that point because I prefer to carry muzzle down. So for me, being completely flush isn't critical.

But I dont need the extra rounds in a bolt gun and a mag hanging low either.

 

[mcb]

I’ve never seen a flush fit AR15 magazine. All the 5 rounders I’ve seen hang down at least a 1/2” or so.

Agreed, never seen one perfectly flush, you want just a little hanging down just so you can get ahold of it on the chance it does not drop free. I have a 9rd 223/556 magazine, and some four rd 30 RAR and 450 BM magazines that are close to flush but still give you something to get ahold of. Magneto speed made a 3rd 223/556 magazine that fit in a proprietary grip and when used goes in the magazine well with the entire magazine sitting on top of the magazine catch. You basically have to open the AR to get it out, but it's an emergency magazine.

 

[doubleh]

I don't remember the brand and am not able to get to the safe where it resides. It was a steel mag purchased at my LGS years ago.

The safe is in a detached garage and I am current unable to walk there and back to the house.

 

[CraigC]

I just leave the detachable magazine in the gun, LOL.

A person who buys a rifle with an attached magazine so that s/he won't forget said magazine is the same sort of person who would then forget to bring ammo for the rifle with the attached magazine. With that said, I have had people show up from Dallas to shoot on my range, after a 90 minute drive, only to realize they forgot their guns. I had a guy show up for a 1000 round pistol match that forgot his ammo. Those people are definitely out there.

Don't know "those people" are, or why we need to denigrate them.

A lot of my rifles get detached from their magazines. I'll often leave the mag loaded, out of the rifle. The mag from my Ruger .300Blk is right here on my desk but the rifle it out in the shop. Not at all unfathomable.

 

[CraigC]

Probably to grab onto....?

I'm interested in What is the shortest AR mag?

I have a Ruger American Ranch with the AR mag.

I rarely carry a rifle at that point because I prefer to carry muzzle down. So for me, being completely flush isn't critical.

But I dont need the extra rounds in a bolt gun and a mag hanging low either.

Unless I'm misremembering (happens a lot as of late) the 10rd mags are the shortest. I have some 5's but their the same size.

 

[jmorris]

Why do manufactures make the products they sell? To make money.

If the market is out there for people to buy a 7' tall truck, that's so high off the ground you need a ladder in the tail gate...that's what they will make, instead of something that could be more useful. Like a tailgate you could set and engine block on vs one a soccer mom can close with one hand, without breaking a nail.

I do like box magazines for loading/make ready and unloading/clear but can drop the floor plate and pocket the rounds easier than a mag. Depends on the situation, I suppose. At our place its generally a mag fed gun but not a bolt action.

 

[mcb]

Probably to grab onto....?

I'm interested in What is the shortest AR mag?

{snip}

This is the shortest AR magazine I have seen, as mentioned in my previous post.

The very bottom of the magazine sits on top of the magazine catch.


My personal collection of short AR magazines: Left to right: Straight 20rd (ref), Rock River 9rd 223/556 , 10rd Magpul Pmag (I tried to convert to 4rd 450 Bushmaster), a DPMS 4rd 450 Bushmaster, Remington 4rd 30 Remington AR.


9rd magazine in an ar, that is about 5/8 inch hanging down.

 

[Varminterror]

Seems like a lot of hunting rifles come with a detachable magazine that is (usually) a proprietary design are can be difficult to locate replacements or spares. Given that fast reloads while hunting is not a high priority, why do manufacturers of many rifles choose to use detachable magazines?

1) Consumers dictate what features manufacturers include. The majority of consumers want detachable mags as a standard feature, so manufacturers offer it.

2) Paying licensing to use someone else's magazine design costs money - typically agreed on a smaller upfront value plus incremental cost on every unit sold. Designing your own is a one time fee.

3) Choosing to use someone else's magazine means you have to design around THEIR magazine. So rather than starting with your own action and stock design, then designing a magazine to fit into it, you're stuck starting with what is relatively NOT the most important part of the design, and building the stock and action around the magazine. This is contraindicated for properly prioritized design.