Why so many "thieves" working in gun stores?

[Big Calhoun]

I often wonder if the reason for the outward attitudes of some gun store employees correlates to a misperception of who gun owners are. I used to go to one store in Dallas proper that apparently does a lot of work for the local PD. You often see your stereotypical alpha-male milling about and the employees seem to treat all customers as if that's who they are addressing.

On the other hand, I drive out to another store in Plano and it's a completely different experience. Family oriented, large selection of firearms of all types and of accessories, they'll order you anything, etc. It's a further drive for me to go out to Plano, plus I have to drive through a construction zone which adds 5-15 minutes to the trip. But for the selection and service, I do it.

 

[rhubarb]

You must go to the wrong gun stores. Everyone I've dealt with in gun stores has been helpful and honest. Not to say that they aren't sometimes tacticool or try to sell me stuff I don't want, but they are honest.

 

[Deanimator]

Most of the Cleveland area gunstores have gone, in large part due to their greed, incompetence and poor customer service. At least a couple ran afoul of the BATFE because of sloppy record keeping. The real shame was Dick's taking over Galyan's. Galyan's had a great selection and good customer service. Dick's dropped ALL handguns and handgun related products (including holsters, of which Galyan's had a decent selection). Their help is rude and lazy. Gander Mountain was ok for a while, but their west side location is going downhill, especially in selection of accessories.

If I want to do some SERIOUS gun and accessories shopping, I have to drive all the way to Akron/Cuyahoga Falls to visit Dick's Gunroom and Pro Gun & Sport. Neither of them is a discount house by any definition, but they've got great selections of quality guns and accessories and polite and knowledgeable staff.

 

[CWL]

Ever hear of the axiom "caveat emptor"? It means "buyer beware" and is a principle that has been applied since a least the Roman times.

Asking a high price isn't a crime (I'm sure no one here feels like a snake if their house goes up 30% in one year). It is up to the individual to comparison shop and vote with your feet.

 

[FieroCDSP]

The response was "I don't know what that is." I'm not sure what term threw him for a loop: AR-15 or receiver. Either way, the person has no business working in a gun shop.

I disagree on that. I'll be the first to admit I know absolutely squat about AR-15's, and my AK knowledge is what little I've been able to learn from my SKS, however little of that applies to the AK (it's has wood.). I sell firearms for a box-retailer, and I don't get any AR-15's. I'm strictly 22 rifles and shotguns. Of those items I do sell, I have taken upon myself to learn as much as possible, which goes waay beyond what the company asks.

Your comment should be, "Either way, that person should learn something about AR-15's." I'm sure they know something on shotguns or bolt-actions. Don't expect everyone to know everything. Most people only claim they do.

 

[DomMega]

I agree which is why I was interested in attaining my FFL so that people wouldn't have to go through that kind of poor customer service skills. We've all been there for the most part. Especially when the dealer thinks you the customer don't know anything about firearms and tries to sell you things you don't need or tries to mark up items 25% for absolutely no reason except to rip you off.

I have plenty of friends in law enforcement whom would rather go through me than half the gun dealers in California. I'm really starting to think about it. I've got the FFL kit in my backpack at work right now.

 

[larry starling]

Being a thief and unethical isn't confined to just gun stores. Just look at many of the items for sale on the auction sites. There are to many examples of guys buying guns cheap and flipping them for twice what they pay for them. To me they are praying on the uninformed and taking advantage of someones lack of knowledge on a particular brand etc....

 

[Charles S]

I will pay a little more for convenience, and I will pay a little more to "keep the money local." I will not pay a LOT more, nor will I tolerate rude or smug treatment.

Just to point out a lot of us feel that way.

I will keep my money local whenever I can, but I will not go to unreasonable lengths to do so.

A good example....a local dealer who I had purchased numerous guns, ammo , magazines, and clothing from, asked for 20% of the value of a custom gun I had researched, ordered, paid a deposit on, paid for the remainder of the cost, and paid shipping for just to receive the gun in shipment. I drove 25 miles away to pay $10 for a gentleman to accept the gun for me as a FFL. I would have been more than happy to pay my local dealer $100 for him to accept the gun, but I would not pay $250 for him to accept the gun when he did absolutly nothing in the transaction. I have not purchased a gun from him since that time.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

Setting certain prices for guns and things isn't necessarily thieving. In once case, I had a gunstore sell me a few boxes of CorBon Pow-R-Ball. But once I got home and opened the boxes, they were regular CorBon hollowpoints. Good stuff, but not what I paid for. That's thieving in my book.

As far as generally, I try to keep my local businesses in business.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Thats why you use a gunstore worker for nothing more than to unlock the case, get the gun you want to see out, and quote you a price.

If the price is right, you buy, if its not...Later!

 

[ArfinGreebly]

* Sigh *

One of my favorite gun shoppes in Reno has decided to gouge.

Not on everything, but on a select few things.

To wit:

Day before yesterday I was browsing rifles -- specifically Saigas -- looking for something in a nice 5.56/.223 with chic black furniture.

They have four (4) of them, two (2) are chambered in 7.62x39 and the other two (2) are chambered in 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem. All four of them are Russian and from the same factory. They were purchased through the same distributor around the same time (as noted on the inventory tag).

Price?

The two (2) rifles in 7.62x39 were priced at $330, while the two (2) rifles in 5.56/.223 were priced at . . . wait for it . . . $540.

I asked. They had no good explanation. Knowing something of their business, I'm able to derive/conjecture why that would be.

They prominently display and sell (one might say, with a certain amount of bias) a wall full of AR variants (Bushy, Stag, Colt, S&W).

Now, I might be very wrong in my guess, but my surmise is that they have jacked up the price of their 5.56/.223 Saigas to eliminate some of the (huge) disparity in pricing between the normally $300 Saiga and the $700-$1,500 AR family, so they can credibly claim, "well, you're not saving that much on the Saiga, you could get the Bushy for another couple of hundred."

But that's just me; I could be wrong.

Pretty much everything else in the shop is right where I'd expect it to be -- even their complete-correct M1 Carbines (*drool*) -- so gouging is not their habit.

Result:

I know of a little shoppe in Draper, Utah, called FBMG, Inc., which is, as it happens, prominently mentioned here on THR.

I can get the same rifle there for (drum roll) $300, plus or minus a few bucks.

Since I'm in the market for more than one, the $200 dollar disparity adds up quickly. I'll be saving enough money to buy extra mags and even an optic or two. And ammo. And that's after adding in shipping and transfer and Brady on top of the $300.

It's possible that I could have found a deal like that locally. Maybe.

But the internet changes many things.

And this is one of those things.

 

[sm]

Both sides of the retail counter have changed over the years.

These changes are evident in other interactions of society - including Internet Fora.

Integrity. Ethics. Morals. Honesty. Values.

There is a correlation in the decline in these core Values and and the decline in the relationship between Customer and Retail.
Retail and Wholesale.
Mfg and Distributor...

Internet members and quality of posts.

 

[obxned]

I've had nothing but good luck with gun store people over the last 1/2 century.

 

[.cheese.]

You know, the whole story would be VERY different if the attitude was different.

Had the guy said to me something like, "Yeah, I know we've done these at X price in the past, but unfortunately overhead is adding up and we decided that we had to raise the prices on some items to keep this business going." - I may have even considered paying the higher price.

But the lie compounded with the "I don't care" attitude and semi-laughing/smirking bit is what killed the store for me.

There is one store that has not yet at least intentionally screwed me. The attitude is always good, the prices are good too most of the time, but most importantly they pay attention to me when I'm in there and don't make me feel like my business is unwanted. The only problem I had with them was once they sold me a Glock that was missing the cleaning rod and brush and the second mag was a pre-ban mag (although according to Glock, that was from them). The gun wasn't old or anything as the date on the test rounds confirmed it had left the factory only a few weeks before.

I can relate this all to the rest of the day as it was spent looking to get a car. I went to 2 different Hummer dealerships (yeah, I'm actually considering an H3 somehow as they look pretty durable and are reasonably priced for what they are), a Toyota dealership, Ford, Nissan, Honda, etc. The two that stuck out as totally different was the 2nd Hummer dealership and the Toyota dealership. At Toyota, the guy was playing number games with me, and I finally just said to him, "I'm not playing this game. I've worked in sales, I know the routine. Give me a number that is your best offer so I can compare it to the other cars I'm looking at. He just basically gave me MSRP.

The second Hummer dealership (the first one I didn't talk prices) sat down with me, treated me like a customer, took the time to talk things out, give me hard numbers, show me how it all works out for the bottom line, and showed me that his deal was as good as he could do (and I'll admit - it was not bad at all, he might get the sale for all I know). He even had his manager come over to talk to me about things. They gave me time and courtesy, and I appreciate that.

While prices are important, the Toyota was only $32k while the H3 was $34k. The difference in service definitely had an effect and after I review consumer reports for the H3, that difference might get them (the Hummer people) a sale.

 

[redneck2]

Well, maybe you should try to work in a gun store for a few weeks. I pretty much ended up with the same attitude about customers as you have about employees.

Instead of the constant "worst thing gun shop employees do" threads, maybe we should have a "stupidest thing a customer asked" thread. Problem is, it'd take up the whole bandwidth of THR.

 

[krimmie]

Hey Economist

What gun store are you talking about? I know you're near Pincreast...I'm also here in Miami so a little heads up would be nice.

 

[.cheese.]

we already had a giant thread about that Redneck.

I've worked a tough sales gig before, had plenty of "dumb" questions..... I viewed them as opportunities to teach.

I was never rude, and the one time I thought that I might have been misunderstood as being rude when a customer who was handicapped (somewhat retarded) seemed to be reporting me to my manager, it turned out he told me manager that I was the only person in the store who treated him like a real customer.

I treated him that way because the moment he walked through the store doors, that's what he was.

Customers are the core of any business, any sales employee who doesn't realize this is in the wrong career.

ETA: I'm saying this in general, not as a specific reply to anybody.

 

[Logan5]

I find this pretty interesting, I thought a lot about it today.

I'm taking some friends to the range tomorrow for some handgun safety/familiarization stuff (I'm an instructor) and I stopped by a gun shop in the town I work in. Of course I had to look at everything before dropping my $85 on ammo. This establishment had one of the new production Colt .38 supers (02291) in the case, used, for $2500 plus tax, no box, no letter, no extra magazine, no explanation when I asked. I'd have to check my records for a dollar figure, but I've bought and sold there on occasion for over ten years. They never remember me.

Of course, I've been looking for one, and the quotes from the three shops nearest where I live are all about $1300 for exactly the same item NIB from Colt. One shop dosen't really do factory orders normally, but I've spent a fair chunk of change and the owners are great. At one I've never bought anything, and at the third I've purchased one holster, one RSC, one rifle, and one handgun over a period of four years, yet when I walk in everyone remembers me and what I've purchased.

My points: First, customer service is a lot like driving skill. Almost all business owners and licensed drivers legitimately believe that they are in the top 10% of everyone who ever engaged in this activity in the history of the world. It is mathematically certain that 90% of them are dead wrong.

Second: Business is tough right now; prices on everything are up, and margins are down, and sales are slowing because the prices are up. Many businesses are making all kinds of stupid decisions because they want to keep their doors open in the short term, but in the long term these decisions are unsustainable and will drive them under. (This applies most directly to outrageously high or low price points compared to everyone else.)

Gun shops are fairly powerless when it comes to generating new leads in today's regulatory environment. Increasing the advertising budget or becoming a Lorcin and Davis master dealer isn't going to do a thing for them. Basically what they can do is stay disciplined (not go insane one way or the other on the price point), not make stupid decisions (discontinue all handgun sales to cut paperwork overhead) and focus on outstanding customer service. Past customers are probably the bulk of sales. Shops need to keep them, and charm every new potential sale that walks in the door, sell them whatever piddly little purchase despite their nose ring/tail/attorney ID/etc, and get them wanting to come back for their next big ticket item.

The upshot is, many gun shops are ineptly run, by people with not the faintest clue about management skills or customer service. These people hire their highschool friends as clerks, do not review their accounting, have no business plan, and... well, I don't know what they rely on to sustain the business. I imagine many of them don't even light candles in church.

 

[craig]

my local guy's mostly pretty good. gun prices are okay on most models, but some are out of line. he's got pretty good service, and his employees don't talk down to my wife when she's looking to buy. except one guy who talks down to everybody, but most people just ignore him. he's got a good gunsmith too, and that's a plus.

the accessories side is a different story. $25.00 for an ak mag? not in this lifetime.
i watched the price of ar mags go up $10.00 as soon as the rumor of a new awb got around.

the fun part has been watching his ammo prices. s.a surplus was $90.00 a battlepack about 3 months ago, now it's $70.00 for the same ammo. i know 'cause one of the packs has a mark on the upper right corner.
his case of wolf 7.62x39 for $300.00 is still there after six months.
.223 is $9.00 for 20 fed. american eagle fmj. $20.00 for amer. eagle 45 acp.

he also raised his transfer price to $36.00 plus tax and call in.

i don't mind helping the local guy, but i'm not getting shafted just to keep him in business. i'll buy from him if he's within $50-75.00 of the best price i can find, but i don't think he realizes there are a couple of new dealers close enough to provide competition, and the power of internet research.

i've found a new transfer guy ($20.00), and i buy my ammo at wally world, or online.

 

[McCall911]

There's a well-deserved "dumb customer" rant here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=244248&highlight=stupid+customers

I enjoyed reading the posts and can sympathize.

I might have loved to work in a gun store at one time, but I dealt with the public for many years. No dice!

 

[Avenger29]

My dealer's great. He doesn't have a huge stock, but has a little bit of everything. If he doesn't have it, he will happily order it.

Only downside is that he is not open reguarly. Instead, he comes in when he feels like it. I have the suspicion that the gunshop is far from his primary source of income, and is more like a hobby without the pressure of trying to make a living.

 

[george29]

It's been a long time since I walked into a "friendly" gun shop, seems like too many gun store owners or their representatives that have this....I don't know how to define it, maybe "smug" attitude. Even a store where I have given maybe $2000 worth of business and they still act like they don't know me well enough to acknowledge me as I walk in (and I never left without buying something). This is as true for Chicago Suburbs as it is for Albuquerque.

Three exceptions, one was Charlie's in Albuquerque, the old man and his Daughter run a friendly shop, The Gun Den, also in Albuquerque run by a gentleman and very patient staff, and J&G of Prescott, a very busy place but still were extremely patient and courteous. I no longer frequent gun shops that have attitudes and my loyalty extends to friendly places only.