Why video and audio recording are changing the nature of police work.

[hoppinglark]

I don't care what the attitude is, even if you suspect someone of something, the language, and the threats to arrest the kids for something "made up" and to rip the camera out of the car are so far over the line that they should be completely indefensible by anyone! The fact that some officers come out and appear to support this particular Scumbag is just disturbing!

This is the heart of the debate.
The kids actions were not criminal, the officers actions were completely over the top.

However he is one cop, bashing him, is not bashing all cops,
just as the media bashing one guy who owns a gun is not bashing all gun owners.

Just like the title of the thread says, thing are going to change, and it's up to We the People to change them, police or ATF, Customers or thieves.
Actions will be documented, conversations will be recorded.
The good guys will win, the bad guys will lose.

 

[Bryan James]

I heard an interview with the police chief last night, and he did call into question the motive of the guy in the car, and also was he trying to entrap the officer into doing something. Then he stated that still doesn't excuses what the officer did.

There's another article in this mornings paper
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/DD258E792AE58A0286257354000FA1BC?OpenDocument

here's what some might find interesting from the article.

During the meeting Darrow asked to see the videotape from Kuehnlein's police car. But according to Uhrig, that footage, inexplicably, is nowhere to be found.

"That's the million-dollar question," Uhrig said. "Our policy says any contact the officer has with the public has to be on tape."

 

[Kentak]

The cop's words, actions, and threats were indefensible for a public servant. In no conceivable way was he acting professionally. Screw him.

K

 

[El Tejon]

I hope this kid has counsel as he is now a marked man in St. Louis.

He should have worn a coat and tie to meet with the Chief, but I understand that look is a uniform for every male under 25. At least he did not wear flip flops.

FWIW, FYI, in many cases where the tape is against the police (car camera or store video), the tape "goes missing." In my cases I send a subpoena immediately before the tape can "disappear". This has been effective is numerous cases.

I hope he gets an attorney and he turns that cop shoppe upside down looking for the video tape. It's always fun to see the prosecutor or the city attorney dance in front of the judge to explain why their tape is "missing" when it only goes missing when it is against them.

 

[F4GIB]

It's always fun to see the prosecutor or the city attorney dance in front of the judge to explain why their tape is "missing" when it only goes missing when it is against them.

Yes, it surely is.

 

[Noxx]

that footage, inexplicably, is nowhere to be found.

Must be a miracle.

After they fire the guy I hope they charge him with destruction of evidence.

 

[Mr. James]

"Missing"?! YGTBSM. I thought Rosemary Woods had gone to her reward . . . I guess her spirit lives on.

Simply unbelievable.

Deanimator, reading your posts on the Chicago PD (as well as following the Obrycka story) just makes me that much more adamant about staying the hell away from that city. I don't think I'd ask one of those goons for directions outta town.

 

[Jim March]

Deanimator is right. There are entire departments that are out of control as basic policy from the top.

Chicago is probably the worst in the nation among large departments. Portland OR PD is just ghastly for their size. San Joaquin County Sheriff's office was a complete mess at the time the sheriff was taken into Federal custody a few years ago and I've heard no indications it's been cleaned up since.

Each department has it's own culture. Some are so bad, I would trust absolutely nobody who wears a badge that visibly dishonored.

 

[Noxx]

In my personal experience, LAPD is a short wicket behind. I'd sooner mess with the Crips than the Cops, at least the former can't DMV run my address from a traffic altercation and come shoot me at home.

 

[TonyStarks]

I hope the officer gets what he deserves. The law works both ways and as easy as he can "come up" with 9 different reasons to have that kid arrested...
That kid can come up with 9 different reasons as to why he is suffering and having a hard time sleeping and therefore file a lawsuit against the department. A grand jury would have no problem making a decision on this one, and a prosecutor will have a field day with this one!

 

[gunsmith]

the kid should have been arrested!

buy only for his taste in "music".
You should not be allowed to be in public with "music" like that coming through your speakers, you should have to get a special license and listen to it in special
clubs that are well soundproofed.

Oh, and those clicks are really irritating.

 

[07Lway]

I would hate to think what would happen to me if he pulled me over. I always ask for the cops badge number, and then call the police to verify that it is actually a police officer. It doesn't take a mastermind to pull off a convincing police costume and vehicle (with all these undercover patrol cars).

 

[Richard47]

It doesn't matter if the kid rides around trying to trap officers. (I don't think he does; I've seen officers do that when I was young.)

The police officer is the professional, the "young boy"? Or any other people the may meet? They are the reason we hire police.

The Chief would never believe a 'young boy" if this was not recorded. In fact, the kid would be in danger for complaining. This ass would retaliate.

Hopefully the Chief has the kahunas to get this guy prosecuted for threatening the "young boy". But listening to him, I doubt it.

 

[joelr]

After watching that video, anybody who doesn't go out and buy a couple of DVRs -- at least -- and keeps them in the car either can't afford them or is missing a working clueserver.

(Me, I already have mine.)

By the way, the tape from the sealed video recorder that was in the perp's squad car has, inexplicably, disappeared.

 

[F4GIB]

By the way, the tape from the sealed video recorder that was in the perp's squad car has, inexplicably, disappeared.

And,...



... the LEO's still wonder why we don't respect them.

It is not "bashing" to tell the truth about the sorry state of American law enforcement. If it hurts, look around you at work, officer, maybe the reason is sitting next to you at roll call. Somebody has been sitting next to this guy ever since he started the Academy. Every cop*, IMHO, knows at least one bad apple but doesn't do anything about it.


* except LEO's who post on this Board, of course.

 

[ilbob]

... the LEO's still wonder why we don't respect them.

It is not "bashing" to tell the truth about the sorry state of American law enforcement. If it hurts, look around you at work, officer, maybe the reason is sitting next to you at roll call. Somebody has been sitting next to this guy ever since he started the Academy. Every cop*, IMHO, knows at least one bad apple but doesn't do anything about it.


* except LEO's who post on this Board, of course.

I don't have ESP or anything, but I would bet there are LEOs who post on this forum and know other cops who have engaged in questionable conduct and did nothing about it. They are human beings, and the human reaction is not to rat on your fellow copper. It is ingrained in them from day one when they join the force.

 

[F4GIB]

The video is on CNN now.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2007/09/12/chetry.kid.pulled.over.dashcam.cnn

 

[redneckrepairs]

IMHO the thread has run its course , and comments have impenged on myself and anyone else who ever wore a badge . I watched the vid , and agree the idiot there had no business representing the public . That is not normal for the folks who do . I am retired LE and if anyone wants to talk crap about LE as a whole respecitng rights just pm me , maby we can meet .. not to kick butt , but to talk , as i did on all the calls i did not abuse anyones rights . anyway enough said by me .. pm if you want further comments or explinations .

 

[txgho1911]

My younger days sometimes met with a roadside chat with TX Troopers or deputy sheriff or deputy constable. Even after a long day or when the officer should be less than happy to see me they always treated me with some respect. I think at the time the state troopers took pride in how well mannered and polite they could be.
So Missouri City TX cops where always fishing and trying to make the village money. They never got bent out of shape with me. Even when I talked to them or asked a question.
"Most officers aren't used to being questioned like that," Uhrig said.


RED, There is room in this thread for other peoples experiences. There are positive interactions as well as the bad. And this thread is not about all, most, many, of the traffic enforcement and patrol LEO.

 

[redneckrepairs]

txgho1911 thanks for the reminder , and in the tradition of my kind i will now observe and reserve comment . You sir are right that there is room for all experiences and we have not heard from but a segement yet . I apologise that frustration got in control of my " mouth " so to speak .

 

[sacp81170a]

It is not "bashing" to tell the truth about the sorry state of American law enforcement. If it hurts, look around you at work, officer, maybe the reason is sitting next to you at roll call. Somebody has been sitting next to this guy ever since he started the Academy. Every cop*, IMHO, knows at least one bad apple but doesn't do anything about it.


* except LEO's who post on this Board, of course.

You're absolutely 100% correct. I feel tainted by the fact that I carry this filthy badge because some other officer somewhere isn't fit to be on the job. All my brother officers feel the same way. We're turning in our badges first thing in the morning. Maybe we can atone in some small way for all the sins that other police have committed by devoting our lives to charity. I'm so sorry I ever thought someone should actually do something about upholding the law. I beg your forgiveness.

Oh, and we'll be emptying all the prisons and jails because they're just full of innocent people. Ask any one of 'em.

 

[sacp81170a]

It is not "bashing" to tell the truth about the sorry state of the American health care system. If it hurts, look around you at work, doctor, maybe the reason is sitting next to you at your office. Somebody has been sitting next to this guy ever since he started Medical School. Every doctor*, IMHO, knows at least one bad apple but doesn't do anything about it.


* except doctors who post on this Board, of course.

*Gasp*

Doctors kill more people every year than criminals and cops combined! Maybe we should apply this logic to every profession?

 

[Sylvan-Forge]

Doctors kill more people every year than criminals and cops combined! Maybe we should apply this logic to every profession?

Indeed, why not?

If the individual will not police their self AND the group, they are giving that power over to others. Who and what will the "others" stand for? Will they actually look out for the group? Look out for you?

Next thing you know, doctors will be nothing more than frontmen for their association and BigPharm. Whoops Ok, people will start to turn to alternative healing. In time, being a doctor will be classed as one of those "jobs that Americans don't want to do anyway."

Next thing you know, law enforcement will be reduced to mopeds and harsh language because they gave over the power to self-police.

Next thing you know, gun owners will be reduced to pointy sticks
fighting for scraps of food in government televised cage-matches

Doctors, lawyers, gun owners, pilots, politicians, whatever ..
It is the members within those groups that primarily drive (or is it ride?) that group to its future blessings or curses.

 

[F4GIB]

It is the members within those groups that primarily drive (or is it ride?) that group to its future blessings or curses.

The conduct exhibited by this officer (on the one in San Antonio who shot himself to get attention) doesn't "just" happen one day out of the blue. No, these guys have been showing signs, I'll hazard gross signs, of unsuitability for some time (probably since High School).

Their fellow officers who have close contact with them MUST have known. Their superiors should have known, even if they actually did not, and taken action to eliminate them from police work. NO ONE ELSE HAS THE POWER.

Civilians cannot, under the present system "fix" bad cops. Only other cops can do that task.

If you work in a three or five person department and all three or five of you are selfless saints, then obviously you all are doing something right. But that's the exception.

 

[ilbob]

If you work in a three or five person department and all three or five of you are selfless saints, then obviously you all are doing something right. But that's the exception.

It would not surprise me at all if most small departments were actually staffed by generally decent people. Not perfect, but decent. Being as we are all imperfect, that is the best you can hope for.

Small departments also have the advantage of closer contact with civilian authority. It tends to encourage better behavior a bit more than departments where there is a long and tenuous path to the mayors office.