WI: Dodge County Sheriff "The current [CCW] legislation is fundamentally flawed!"

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Trip20

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The following is a commentary from Todd Nehls, sheriff of Dodge County. You can contact the sheriff at [email protected]
I urge anyone with some time to respond to Mr. Nehls.
Source.


Posted December 20, 2005

Commentary: Good, bad aspects of state's versions of concealed carry bill


Many have asked what my position is on Assembly Bill 763 and Senate Bill 403 – the "Carrying Concealed Weapons" legislation. As many of you know, this is a very controversial topic with many people on each side of the fence, as well as a few still riding the fence.


As sheriff of Dodge County, I was more encouraged with this years' legislation versus the effort two years ago. The last effort would have required the sheriff to conduct the background checks and issue the permits.


This effort would have exposed the county taxpayers to potential civil litigation should a permit holder harm another due to our issuance of the permit. The county would have received $75 to offset the costs, which we figured would have amounted to a couple hundred dollars. At that time I spoke publicly that I was not against the concept of concealed carry but had serious reservations regarding the fine print and the under-funded mandate of issuance.


So here we are in 2005 and the Senate has passed a new version that would require the Department of Justice to issue the permits. A great idea! However, just when I thought our elected officials started putting together a palatable piece of legislation, they have again added and amended it to ensure law enforcement opposition. Law enforcement asked that the list of permit holders be an open record. This would bring validity to the system of issuance. That failed. What they did provide to law enforcement is the opportunity to search the data base only during traffic stops to see if drivers are permit holders.


This is a great safety net for both the driver and the officer. That passed, but with a very strict and tremendously silly amendment. The amendment will only allow law enforcement to check during legitimate traffic stops and not for domestic abuse calls, rapes, mental health calls or even burglaries.


Our elected officials also stepped over the edge when they threw in another amendment that would expose a law enforcement officer, if, in the course of his/her duty, to be charged with a crime should they use the access for anything but a legitimate traffic stop. Other provisions allow citizens to get a permit three years after they are released from a mental institute or drug rehab. They have also failed to implement an absolute sobriety provision to ensure those carrying are not drinking. We know alcohol and firearms is a recipe that can lead to disaster. Permit holders would be allowed to have a blood alcohol concentration up to .079 without being in violation.


My question must be: Why can't our elected officials pass something that is bi-partisan and reasonable? Why can't we pass legislation in a form that protects the greater majority of citizens and law enforcement alike? Of course that would require our elected officials to contact their local law enforcement managers and get their opinions. The current legislation is fundamentally flawed!


I would support the proper CCW legislation. What we need is a realistic form of legislation that eliminates the stupid amendments that hamstring law enforcement and benefit the minority. Point in case: a woman calls 911 because she is being beaten by her husband. While deputies respond, another deputy accesses the system to determine if the husband is a permit holder. He finds out he is, informs responding deputies of this for officer safety reasons. That deputy just committed a Class C Misdemeanor and will be jailed.


Great legislation gang, keep up the good work! Thanks for listening.


Todd Nehls is sheriff of Dodge County. Contact him at [email protected].

He's incorrect when he states "Permit holders would be allowed to have a blood alcohol concentration up to .079 without being in violation."

With the Assembly proposed amendment, .02 is the limit.

I also thought the following was complete BS:
This is a great safety net for both the driver and the officer. That passed, but with a very strict and tremendously silly amendment. The amendment will only allow law enforcement to check during legitimate traffic stops and not for domestic abuse calls, rapes, mental health calls or even burglaries
Am I to believe officers are not trained to expect weapons on a domestic abuse, rape, mental health or even a burglary call? Not to mention the fact that it's legal to carry a weapon in your home. Oh yeah, and a person committing a burglary or rape... uh wouldn't you expect there to be a weapon involved - and thus proceed accordingly?

:banghead:

Edited for disclaimer: This is not LEO-bashing. The commentary could have come from my own grand-pappy (RIP), and I would still have brought it to the attention of WI THR members.
 
also thought the following was complete BS:
This is a great safety net for both the driver and the officer. That passed, but with a very strict and tremendously silly amendment. The amendment will only allow law enforcement to check during legitimate traffic stops and not for domestic abuse calls, rapes, mental health calls or even burglariesp
Am I to believe officers are not trained to expect weapons on a domestic abuse, rape, mental health or even a burglary call? Not to mention the fact that it's legal to carry a weapon in your home. Oh yeah, and a person committing a burglary or rape... uh wouldn't you expect there to be a weapon involved - and thus proceed accordingly?
Exactly the point I think needs making here.

Is he trying to say that unless somebody tells him there might be a firearm at a domestic (or rape or whatever) that they would normally assume that there isn't one? Are the police in that town really that flaming stupid? If so - they've set a new low standard of standardness, imo.
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It's almost an insult to Law Enforcement. He's basically implying that unless they have database availability at will, officers will walk into situations involving burglary, rape, DV, all happy-go-lucky like Barney Phife.

Is he saying WI LEO's are not given proper training to deal with these scenarios, and are also too unintelligent to figure out there may be weapons involved on MOST calls? I sure hope not. :fire:
 
Trip20 said:
It's almost an insult to Law Enforcement. He's basically implying that unless they have database availability at will, officers will walk into situations involving burglary, rape, DV, all happy-go-lucky like Barney Phife.

Is he saying WI LEO's are not given proper training to deal with these scenarios, and are also too unintelligent to figure out there may be weapons involved on MOST calls? I sure hope not. :fire:
He is the Sheriff of Dodge County, their deputies are not the sharpest knives in the drawer if you know what I mean.

And yes his arguement is pretty stupid. He has two brothers working as LEOs in Texas who have not quit their jobs or have even been injured because of that state's CCW law. (Is the CCW law in Texas more or less restrictive than the one proposed in WI?)
 
I was told TX and WI CCW laws would be similar. Not sure how accurate that statement is. I'll see what I can dig up when I get home from work this evening.

Is that true about the sheriff having two brothers who are LEO's in TX?
 
Are you guys (WI) going to have to be as "Careful as a Texan" when you get dressed in the morning, or is there a provision for open carry?


StopTheGrays said:
He has two brothers working as LEOs in Texas who have not quit their jobs or have even been injured because of that state's CCW law.
No. Really? They're in Texas, and they've not crossed the path of a CCW holder having a bad day yet? Well - they've probably just been lucky so far. :rolleyes:
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Janitor - I've read a lot of the bill... but I honestly cannot remember a portion of the bill which deals with a provision for open carry. I know open carry is supposedly already legal in WI. If once a citizen receives their permit - they then waive their right to open carry - I'm not certain.

Most of my "reading-time" for SB403 has been in a room with a tile floor, a sink, and a shower... :cool: If ya catch my whiff.... errrrrr DRIFT. :D

I'll try to pay more attention so as to not miss these important tid-bits!
 
Trip20 said:
I was told TX and WI CCW laws would be similar. Not sure how accurate that statement is. I'll see what I can dig up when I get home from work this evening.

Is that true about the sheriff having two brothers who are LEO's in TX?

One works in Sugarland and the other is a constable in Fort Bend county.
 
STG (if you don't mind me abbreviating your name),

Is TX similar in that this database is not available to LEO, same is the proposed law in WI?
 
Janitor said:
Are you guys (WI) going to have to be as "Careful as a Texan" when you get dressed in the morning, or is there a provision for open carry?



No. Really? They're in Texas, and they've not crossed the path of a CCW holder having a bad day yet? Well - they've probably just been lucky so far.
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As far as I understand, open carry is already legal in Wisonsin, but if you do so you can probably be assured of being stopped and cited/arrested for "disturbing the peace" or some other vagueness. As Trip20 said, I'm not certain either if obtaining a CCW permit in Wisconsin as per this bill would waive your right to open carry.
 
Trip20 said:
STG (if you don't mind me abbreviating your name),

Is TX similar in that this database is not available to LEO, same is the proposed law in WI?

I do not know. I was hoping a THRoader from TX would be able to tell us.
 
cosine said:
As far as I understand, open carry is already legal in Wisonsin, but if you do so you can probably be assured of being stopped and cited/arrested for "disturbing the peace" or some other vagueness. As Trip20 said, I'm not certain either if obtaining a CCW permit in Wisconsin as per this bill would waive your right to open carry.
I do not think it does because there is no law against open carry (so long as no one sees you walking around that way and calls the po-po. The po-po will then issue you a citation for disorderly conduct. BS I know but pretty much SOP in WI)
 
Well, if open carry is already legal there, I've got to believe it will continue to be. I can't imagine how they would word a law saying you could no longer open carry because now you've been trained and had a background check.

As far as getting stoped and cited for disorderly? That's just BS. I'm sure it can/will happen, but that doesn't keep it from being BS.
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Isn't it illegal to open carry in TX (maybe it's just illegal when you have a CCW permit), but I remember reading this somewhere, maybe a post from a Texan... Oh well, enough half-remembering... I'll get on the PC when I get home and see what can be found.
 
Sounds like the same lame arguments everytime the citizens of a certain state want to get thier rights back.

You will get a carry law - hang in there!
 
Trip20 said:
Isn't it illegal to open carry in TX (maybe it's just illegal when you have a CCW permit), but I remember reading this somewhere, maybe a post from a Texan... Oh well, enough half-remembering... I'll get on the PC when I get home and see what can be found.
Yes. Open carry is illegal in Texas. Hence, my query about having to dress as "careful as a Texan". From what I understand, they can even get in trouble for simply printing.
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Forgive me Janitor. I'm a little slow today. I was up late watching the game last night.

Being from Baltimore (and a Ravens fan) and living in WI... you can imagine how popular I was at the local tavern last night. Thank God I was with a large group of co-workers and other friends! And thank myself for having the smarts to ensure I had some Advil at work today... :eek:
 
One thing to keep in mind about all of these articles and all of the objections: they are purely political.

Last year the sheriffs objected to what they called an "unfunded mandate."

Then they complained about police officers and deputies not being able to find out from a plate check who has a permit.

Now they're complaining that the list of permit holders isn't entirely public.

Every objection being raised by every law enforcement official and every legislator is just an excuse to oppose the bill. The only way we would get a bill with no objections would be if it only allowed legislators, sheriffs and their immediate families to carry.

Keep your eye on the real targets: Representative Terry Van Akkeren of Sheboygan, and Representative John Steinbrink of southeastern Kenosha county. If we keep their votes, we win.
 
Every objection being raised by every law enforcement official and every legislator is just an excuse to oppose the bill. The only way we would get a bill with no objections would be if it only allowed legislators, sheriffs and their immediate families to carry.

I'm sorry to say that sounds entirely credible. Wisconsin seems to have nearly as many self-appointed aristocrats as Ohio and Missouri.
 
Trip20 said:
Being from Baltimore (and a Ravens fan) and living in WI... you can imagine how popular I was at the local tavern last night.
Now I know what this - :what: - emoticon is really for! Man - no wonder you need a carry permit! :D

Monkeyleg said:
Then they complained about police officers and deputies not being able to find out from a plate check who has a permit.
I'm sorry. I really hate that I keep on whipping this horse that should really be long dead and burried. But why on earth would a deputy stopping a car assume that they had no weapons in it if they don't have a CCW? How irresponsible is it to train their LEOs that way?

Maybe even worse:
Monkeyleg said:
Every objection being raised by every law enforcement official and every legislator is just an excuse to oppose the bill.
That there are legislators who actually believe it makes sense that an LEO should be upset if he doesn't know ahead of time if somebody can legally carry a gun. They actually believe that it's the legal guns the police should be concerned with?

Arrrghhh!

[*whole bunch of offensive stuff about bliss ninnys deleted to save Art the trouble*]
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