Will H&K manufacture the 416 as a 9mm/.45 submachine gun?

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Famaldehide Face

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I know of H&K manufacturing the UMP to eventually replace the MP5 in production, But it came to mind that they may start making the HK416 but as a Submachine gun chambered in either 9mm/.45 ACP much like the Colt Model 635/La France M16K 45.

Just a thought but would it be possible?
 
I know of H&K manufacturing the UMP to eventually replace the MP5 in production
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Someone correct me if I am wrong, I don't know a whole lot about subguns, but I don't think that the UMP was ever intended to replace the MP5. Again, I may be wrong though. To answer your question, I haven't heard anything as of yet about the 416 and 417 being chambered in anything other than 5.56 and 7.62, respectively.

Jason
 
Possible, maybe. Likely, no. More like when pigs fly.

If you want something like that, consider a Lusa, from the PTR91 folks.

I think the UMP is intended to replace the MP5, but I'm not a big HK devotee.
 
How would an H&K 416 derived subgun in 9mm differ from any other 9mm AR derived subgun?

I got the impression that the primary feature making the 416 different from other AR-15 derivatives was the short-stroke gas piston that replaced the direct impingement system. Since all the 9mm AR derivatives are direct blowback and dispense with the gas system entirely, what would be the appeal? The HK logo?
 
I don't believe the UMP was intended to replace the MP5. The UMP was intended to be a lower cost alternative for LE agencies with tight budgets. I remember reading somewhere (hkpro.com I believe) that the UMP is about $850, versus $1100+ for the MP5.
 
I doubt it. The SMG is slowly but steadily dying and being replaced by the short barrel assault carbine. I think HK would only consider doing a pistol caliber 416 if some government agency was interested, and I'm not sure what agency that would be.
 
Manufacturing niche variants would imply first manufacturing the mainstream 5.56, and I don't think that is going to happen any time soon.

Plus, as mentioned, its appeal over any existing 9mm AR would be exactly zero, other than possibly the logo on the side.
 
The UMP was designed to provide the mobility and performance of the MP5 but in a larger caliber. You can't find an MP5 in .45 ACP or .40 S&W. Hence the UMP. Of course with these cartridges you lose rate of fire.
 
The Highlander,

Yes, you CAN find a .40 MP5. Never seen one in .45 though.

The MP5 is available in .40S&W, as well as 10mm (for the FBI). The UMP is also available in .40 and 9mm, so I think cost is the main factor in making both available.
 
How would an H&K 416 derived subgun in 9mm differ from any other 9mm AR derived subgun?
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Well the HK416 derived subgun would have a slightly taller upper receiver that would make all your existing optics and sights a wee bit too tall. :)
 
What would be the point?


There is no need for a piston system to handle the extraction/ejection of pistol calibers. The 416 piston system is a replacement for the direct impingement in an AR. Aside from the P7 and PSP pistols, when have you seen a gas system on a pistol caliber?


It's a solution to a nonexistent problem. There are better and less complicated ways to make a submachine gun.
 
The logo on the side makes the MP5 so expensive.

The roller-delay mechanism adds some cost, but if you figure that the basic 9mm subgun can be made for $100-200 - and I think that's easily achievable (apart from the BATF not approving open bolt designs) - then the roller delay mechanism shouldn't add more than another $200 (you know, double?). Anyway, I think someone who really wanted to could probably make a decent MP5 clone for under $500, maybe well under.
 
The logo on the side makes the MP5 so expensive.

The roller-delay mechanism adds some cost, but if you figure that the basic 9mm subgun can be made for $100-200 - and I think that's easily achievable (apart from the BATF not approving open bolt designs) - then the roller delay mechanism shouldn't add more than another $200 (you know, double?). Anyway, I think someone who really wanted to could probably make a decent MP5 clone for under $500, maybe well under.
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Even with the addition of a couple hundred dollars as you mention, I don't think you can fairly compare the MP5 to any blow-back, stamped metal, cheap-to-produce SMG. An MP5 is in a whole different class than the Ingrams, Cobrays, etc., that fall into the cheaper category of SMGs you mention. I'd also venture there'd be a whole lot more invested in gearing up for production of the MP5 vs. the others as well. Cost of production would be higher, cost of higher quality building materials would be higher, etc., etc. On top of that, they are selling to a very small market, relatively speaking. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the cost incurred by H&K to make an MP5 is >$400.

Jason
 
I don't think you can fairly compare the MP5 to any blow-back, stamped metal, cheap-to-produce SMG. An MP5 is in a whole different class than the Ingrams, Cobrays, etc., that fall into the cheaper category of SMGs you mention.
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Isn't the MP5 blow-back, stamped metal, and cheap to produce? Admittedly it's delayed blow-back, but there's still noting in it's manufacture that's all that inherently expensive. Stampings are cheap. Hammer forged barrels are cheap. Plastic moldings are cheap.Heck, they make them under license in places like Mexico, Pakistan, and Turkey. It's not like they're all hand forged by übermenschen under the direct supervision of Thor himself.

I've never heard from anybody who actually used a variety of subguns who thought that the MP5 was the pinnacle of Teutonic perfection that the fanboys seem to believe as an article of faith.
 
I was under the impression that the MP5 was no longer produced.

As far as a 416 in a pistol cartridge, their is not enough gas to work in a gas operated auto.
 
I don't think you can fairly compare the MP5 to any blow-back, stamped metal, cheap-to-produce SMG.
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Yet, it is. Delayed blowback, perhaps, but its a stamp-metal gun that can be pumped out fairly simply. The difference between it and the cobrays?

We can buy the cobrays.
 
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