Will the new M&P 45 top the XD-45?

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gudel "Grip safety is just a marketing gimmick."

Uhhh actually it was so Croation soldiers would have a lil safer sidearm as the original was used in combat in very brushy country with open holsters similar to those carried by police officers here in the states for faster access than a full flap holster as fighting could go from heavy brush to urban within a few steps....... The original HS2000 was actually used heavily by Croation soldiers and the ability to carry totally safe without risk of gear or brush triggering the weapon was very important yet it was ready to fire as drawn without having to clear a manual safty........ in otherwords as they had no intention originally of selling their military issued sidearm... marketing would not have been much of a consideration ;) does this guy look like he's intrested in marketing? maybe onea these Croatian snipers? LOL the HS2000 was in use for 2 years when these pics were taken in 1992......
 

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so the grip safety on the 1911. which im pretty sure was a Military requirement in the solicitation for the new pistol is just a marketing gimick... back in pre-1911... right ;)

anyway. smith and wesson obviously make great guns. i just didnt get the feel of the MP. but hey, i like my pistols designed by JMB and my rifles made from commie steel. :neener:
 
I Hope So

I sure hope so. I have a bunch of SW stock and well see for yourself.
I hope all the gazillion $$ of firearms that are being exported by the US Government to Egypt soon are all S&W M&P products as-well. ;)

SWHC Performance as of 8.09.07.
Smith and Wesson Holding Company.

SWperformance.jpg

If you had invested $1000 in S&W stock a few months ago, you would now own a M&P 45 "free" based on earnings.

Analysts still consider S&W a "strong buy" as of yesterday. Their LE sales are just ramping up with the new M&P line.
 
I almost was convinced to buy a S&W M&P .45, but then I looked at the mag and it said "10 O" at the bottommost witness hole. For a gun the same size as the XD45, it should hold at least 12. I like the M&P better, but I'm not going to buy a gun with a handicapped mag (they didn't make it wide enough to be a true double stack) when I could get something the same size with a real mag.

That leaves me with the M&P .40 or 9mm, and I've already got that covered with Glock. I like the Glock trigger better anyway, and I shoot enough revolvers that the grip angle is great for me. I just wish I could fit a .45 Glock in my hand. Or that the XD didn't put me off for some reason.

Oh well. The Glock 19 will be passed on to my grandchildren some day, with lots, and lots, and lots of wear - both holster and shooting. We'll see if my wife's M&P .40 compact will enjoy the same fate :)
 
Glock will actually go to the gabage bin before to your kids. Not to be a spoil sport, but it's a fact that parts in the XD frame can be removed and replaced, where their failure in a Glock means the whole receiver must be thrown away.
 
lucky said:
Glock will actually go to the gabage bin before to your kids. Not to be a spoil sport, but it's a fact that parts in the XD frame can be removed and replaced, where their failure in a Glock means the whole receiver must be thrown away.
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Can you expand upon this, please?
 
Why the need for a coronation?

I own an XD (5-months, 1000rds) and have shot the M&P (rental, 25rds). I think it's going to come down to brand loyalty/perception and maybe after-market products/parts availability. Neither one is going to overtake the other, they'll have similar market share.

These guns are enough alike that you have to split-hairs to tell the difference (from a shooting perspective, not technically speaking). I like the grip safety, all others are passive on these models. They both felt good in hand. They shoot VERY much the same. Other than the grip feel, I would be hard-pressed to tell the difference in handling.

I didn't have a chance to change the grip on the M&P so I can't tell if or how much a difference that would have made to my opinion had I been able to find the "right" grip size, it had the medium swell attached.
 
Heh, if you want a high capacity .45 in plastic, look no further than the Taurus 24/7. It's a thinner grip than the XD, and only holds one round less at 12+1.

The only thing the M&P has in favor of the XD is the swappable grip panels. That alone is a nice feature. However, the lack of a high capacity magazine, would leave this one in the display case for me. Shoot, if I wanted a simple 10 round .45 plastic gun, I'd stick with my Taurus Millenium Pro 145.
 
According to a Smith and Wesson representative I corresponded with yesterday via email, they will be releasing the 14-round magazines for the M&P45 within the next two months.
 
Can one get used to the "ergonomics" of an XD-45? I narrowed my choices down to the XD45 and the M&P45, and went with the M&P45 finally because the grip felt SO much better in my hand. I liked the XD45 also except it felt like a big square block of soap in my hand. I'm sure I could get used to it, I guess. The M&P45 felt even better in the hand once I tried all 3 of the backstraps and found that one of them fit better than the others.

As far as mag capacity goes, for an average joe like me I don't see too much difference between 10 rounds of 45 and 13 or 14 with the XD. Any concerns I had on that were eased by getting 2 extra free mags for the M&P45 (4 total basically came with the gun) and there's talk anyway that S&W will release a 14 round 45 magazine for the M&P later this year.
 
According to a Smith and Wesson representative I corresponded with yesterday via email, they will be releasing the 14-round magazines for the M&P45 within the next two months.
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Not possible. At least not with flush-fitting mags. The mag well is too narrow to fit a true double-stack magazine in there.
 
Canadian CNG forum, poster with a range that rents pistols (heavy use):

Redleg:
Quote:
But the glock will never break. The XD has had some problems.

Really?? That is news to me. I have Glocks breaking all the time. XDs too for that matter. I don't think the failure rates are much different. However the XD locking insert incorporates the frame rails, so it can be replaced. When the glock frame rails fail, the receiver is garbage.

Buy what you like, either is a good gun. The Glock finish is more durable, I'll give you that.
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Not sure what your point is here. I'm not discussing internet stories, I fix the guns on a commercial range. The Glocks do break, and unlike some folks that seem to think that Glocks are indestructable, I consider them about average in the quality gun market. However, as I said both are good guns, so I guess we are in agreement.
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This is true if I was buying all of them. I was not. I have run a score of Glocks on the range. Many have ended up as scrap. I have run a half dozen XDs, and except for minor part replacement they are all still oeprable. I have replaced many minor parts on both types of gun.
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No not really. A gun generally lasts a year here. A really good gun will last 2 or 3. Glocks last a year. They see a little more use than the XDs but in the order of 25% not 300%. The XDs have all been in use for more than a year. I don't have a single Glock that has been. Of course having said that, remember that I can replace a locking insert/frame rails on an XD, whereas the Glock goes in the garbage if the rails fail. The XDs do have issues with the trigger bar spring breaking. So do the Glocks, but I have replaced them with the NY units to solve that problem.
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This says more about the supply of parts than the durability of the guns. Most of the issues concern the trigger bar return spring. It is a small simple to replace part. Unfortunately SA has decided not to sell parts, and only to give them away through their distributor (R Nichols). Of course R Nichols has never been noted as a company that stocks parts. So there is a very slow part replacement system. Given a few years this will likely change, and parts will be more available.
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Well, nice to see that this XD v. M&P brings out the Glock haters - how did the topic even move to Glock?

Anyway, I would like to see an XD torture test that doesn't reside on a manufacturers Web site. Can anybody say BIAS? To each their own when it comes to firearms. If it fits your hand and you can shoot it accurately then it is the right gun for you. If it doesn't fit then it isn't for you.

I do not own an XD so I cannot readily comment on the pistol but I do own the M&P. The M&P's, once they get out of their growing pain stage will be top sellers in both the civilian and LE community.

As for citing another Web site as proof of Glock's longevity, wake up! Anybody can post as an expert or Mall Ninja and there are those who will claim this to be the gospel. Sorry, but I've owned way too many Glocks and have shot thousands of rounds through them without any malfunctions. I've also seen several thousand rounds go down range during departmental qualifications and during IDPA matches without issue.

American made and S&W warranty will be enough to persuade many to buy the M&P. As for capacity, if you need more than ten +1 then you need to either practice more, get a rifle and/or shotgun, or change your hobby.
 
I would hardly call a grip safety a gimmick. Many people are trained to shift your thumb to the hammer or back of the slide when reholstering. This makes it IMPOSSIBLE for the gun to shoot you in the leg when reholstering as you would no longer be pressing the grip safety. With Glocks or my M&Ps I will only carry them in a rigid holster to lessen the possibility of having an accident.

Secondly, how the heck is eight rounds better than 10? If I can't have 13 I'd rather have eight? Thats silly. I'd rather have ten than a stupidly fat grip like the G21 or the goofy long broomhandle grip of the XD. I prayed the M&P would have ten round mags rather than a fat ungainly grip like the G21. If the M&P had single stack mags like the 1911, then what would you say??
 
Jon,

I assuming you were addressing me in your last post. Please correct me if that assumption is wrong. Also, please keep in mind these are just my opinions.

I would hardly call a grip safety a gimmick. Many people are trained to shift your thumb to the hammer or back of the slide when reholstering. This makes it IMPOSSIBLE for the gun to shoot you in the leg when reholstering as you would no longer be pressing the grip safety. With Glocks or my M&Ps I will only carry them in a rigid holster to lessen the possibility of having an accident.
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Gimmick was the wrong word and I apologize for that. However I don't see "much" usefulness. I was trained to always keep any appendage clear of the back of the slide on an autoloader, regardless of on the line or not. Thus, when I reholster, I am typically disengaging the grip safety. I can see its usefulness when dropped, etc to keep one from accidentally grabbing the trigger. Please keep in mind this is only my opinion. I am no expert. Obviously it is a major characteristic of one of the most popular handguns in history, so what do I know? :p:D

Secondly, how the heck is eight rounds better than 10? If I can't have 13 I'd rather have eight? Thats silly. I'd rather have ten than a stupidly fat grip like the G21 or the goofy long broomhandle grip of the XD. I prayed the M&P would have ten round mags rather than a fat ungainly grip like the G21. If the M&P had single stack mags like the 1911, then what would you say??
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I shoot a 1911 better. But I prefer polymer for my daily carry guns. The jump from 8 to 10 isn't significant to me. The jump from 8 to 14 is. Call it silly if you like, but again it's my opinion.
 
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Only 10rds. No I don't think it will out sell the XD, Glocks or any other high capacity polymer .45. Plus many people have negative opinions of S&W polymer auto guns because of Sigma series. it will be interesting if the M&P will shake the negative image of the Sigma series. Also the other M&P pistols seem to be having teething problems which is not a good start for a product line that is suppose to take market share away from Glock and HK.
 
Point taken Tydephan, my statement wasn't so much the significance of the difference between 8 or ten rounds, but the silliness of saying that if its not 13 or 14 than its better to have 8 than ten. Thats just weird. One in the chamber plus ten in the mag and two spare mag is 31 rounds. A 1911 with the same setup is 25 rounds (if 8 round mags are used) Thats six rounds difference. I think if the weapon fits my hand, shoots well, and puts six more rounds on my belt I'm not going to discount it to save myself an 1/8th worth of magazine width or out of spite because I can't carry more ammo. My decision is going to be based on which gun I shoot better, not the mag capacity.

Incidentally, I choose to carry a M&P 9C. And I chose it over the XD 9mm not because of the mag capacity or safety features but because it fit my hand like a glove and I shoot the M&P better than most any gun I've ever had. I shot an XD and found it difficult to shoot well in my hands anyhow (Same with the Glocks). "Feel" of the gun is hard to quantify but it seems to make a big difference in my shooting. I can shoot a Highpower, 1911, M&P, Beretta, SIG very well. I can't shoot a Glock, Metal Frame Smith and Wesson, or and XD without much more effort. I'll take an 8 shot 1911 over a 15 round Glock anyday, not because of capacity but my ability to hit with it. Others would have a different opinion and can shoot Glocks naturally. I think the M&Ps will appeal to people who like the features and design of the polymer guns but want something that suits them, "FEEL" wise.
 
My decision is going to be based on which gun I shoot better, not the mag capacity.
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I agree. But I do not discount mag capacity completely. It is a factor in the overall equation.

For example, if I'm 100% accurate with my 1911, but only 90% accurate with an XD, I have a choice to make. I make that choice based on weight, daily dress, gun fit, mag capacity etc.

Either way...I understand your point. It only takes one well-placed round to be effective and I place a lot of emphasis on accuracy. I do not subscribe to the spray and pray philosophy.

Incidentally, I choose to carry a M&P 9C. And I chose it over the XD 9mm not because of the mag capacity or safety features but because it fit my hand like a glove and I shoot the M&P better than most any gun I've ever had.
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Ditto. I carry the same gun for the same reason. What rig do you carry in? I'm trying to get used to a Comp Tac CTAC. I think I've finally got it adjusted for comfort.
 
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