Will this make the 300 Blackout obsolete?
- Thread starter Owen Sparks
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jmt1271
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LOL.
I am getting a 300blk due to its versatility and it looks damn fun!
I am getting a 300blk due to its versatility and it looks damn fun!
I don't get the desire for a 7.62x39 AR. I don't understand the reasoning of spending $1,500 to shoot the most inaccurate steel cased ammo you can find. If you just want to blast away (which there's nothing wrong doing so) then a number of AK variants are already proven great to do so.
To me, from a civilian point, the AR is a good platform to because of it's interchangeability as well as it's ability to be an accurate platform with little effort. Using a proprietary upper, lower, and bolt kills interchangeability and 7.62x39 ammo available today is typically bargain basement junk good for blasting and little more. So why buy this rifle?
I'm not a huge fan of many of the caliber conversions for the AR. The .300 blackout was one I didn't jump for joy over when announced. It though has grown a bit on me for multiple reasons, most of which hinge around availability of common parts to the .223/5.56 models. Being only a barrel change away really does make the round versatile to people who already own an AR.
The only other round I really like is a total reloader only option and that's the 6.5 AR Turbo. Seems like a heck of a lot of round out of an AR platform. Fired a neighbor's rifle in it and it was a great shooter.
To me, from a civilian point, the AR is a good platform to because of it's interchangeability as well as it's ability to be an accurate platform with little effort. Using a proprietary upper, lower, and bolt kills interchangeability and 7.62x39 ammo available today is typically bargain basement junk good for blasting and little more. So why buy this rifle?
I'm not a huge fan of many of the caliber conversions for the AR. The .300 blackout was one I didn't jump for joy over when announced. It though has grown a bit on me for multiple reasons, most of which hinge around availability of common parts to the .223/5.56 models. Being only a barrel change away really does make the round versatile to people who already own an AR.
The only other round I really like is a total reloader only option and that's the 6.5 AR Turbo. Seems like a heck of a lot of round out of an AR platform. Fired a neighbor's rifle in it and it was a great shooter.
Really, the RRA 7.62x39 is all about blasting with cheap ammo. Cheap ammo has sold people on some of the least desirable firearms I have seen, the Mosin Nagant which is one of the most awkward rifles to shoot with the worst ergonomics and is so difficult to operate, is a prime example. Yet, because the ammo is so cheap (as is the rifle), it has some of the most rabid of fanbois. Look at the popularity of HiPoints. Never underestimate the shooting public's ability to embrace and fall in love with "cheap".
The retail price of the basic LAR-47 is $1200. I don't know where some of you boys are getting AKs for $400 (1/3 the price) but in my neck of the woods WASRs are going for $600 and since they are Angry Beaver Builds from Century, I'd rather pony up the extra $200-$300 or so for an Arsenal at the LGS that's known to be on the high side.
The real attraction of the 300 BLK is that it's a 30-30 Lite in a fast handling modern carbine with a 30 round detachable box magazine and mounts good optics. With .308 bullets designed specifically to give best expansion for the velocities the cartridge develops, that makes it a clear winner for whitetail and hog hunters. For the first time, I want a carbine chambered for a round that makes 30-30 ballistics. If the 300 BLK does fail, it will be in large part due to the fact the 30-30 proved to be too tough to knock from it's throne
The retail price of the basic LAR-47 is $1200. I don't know where some of you boys are getting AKs for $400 (1/3 the price) but in my neck of the woods WASRs are going for $600 and since they are Angry Beaver Builds from Century, I'd rather pony up the extra $200-$300 or so for an Arsenal at the LGS that's known to be on the high side.
The real attraction of the 300 BLK is that it's a 30-30 Lite in a fast handling modern carbine with a 30 round detachable box magazine and mounts good optics. With .308 bullets designed specifically to give best expansion for the velocities the cartridge develops, that makes it a clear winner for whitetail and hog hunters. For the first time, I want a carbine chambered for a round that makes 30-30 ballistics. If the 300 BLK does fail, it will be in large part due to the fact the 30-30 proved to be too tough to knock from it's throne
How is it that I contradicted myself?
Just going out on a limb and making an informed prediction based on previous trends and outcomes in the firearms industry and other industries that behave and track in similar ways.
If you disagree, tell us why. When you get yourself up off the the floor that is.
B
Another point of view.
When I got into WWII vintage 30 Carbines, I thought they would make a nifty home defense rifle. But, I did not want to use the vintage rifles and the current manufactured 30 Carbine clones do not have the best reputation for reliability.
I am very familiar with the AR platform so I looked at the various options, including buying a 223 Rem M4gery for the home defense purpose.
The 300 Blk fit the bill quite well. It has a bit better ballistics than the 30 Carbine, better knock down than the 223 Remington, a familiar platform that does not require special magazines, does not require special parts except the barrel, and factory ammunition is available.
While there are cartridges with better ballistics, in my opinion, each has its disadvantages for my purposes.
If it had not been for AAC's efforts to standardize the 300 Blk cartridge, I would not have considered it and probably would still be looking.
I will admit if supply does not catch up with demand, it can be a serious negative in the longevity of the 300 Blk cartridge. I reload and have acquired case forming equipment so my bets are hedged.
When I got into WWII vintage 30 Carbines, I thought they would make a nifty home defense rifle. But, I did not want to use the vintage rifles and the current manufactured 30 Carbine clones do not have the best reputation for reliability.
I am very familiar with the AR platform so I looked at the various options, including buying a 223 Rem M4gery for the home defense purpose.
The 300 Blk fit the bill quite well. It has a bit better ballistics than the 30 Carbine, better knock down than the 223 Remington, a familiar platform that does not require special magazines, does not require special parts except the barrel, and factory ammunition is available.
While there are cartridges with better ballistics, in my opinion, each has its disadvantages for my purposes.
If it had not been for AAC's efforts to standardize the 300 Blk cartridge, I would not have considered it and probably would still be looking.
I will admit if supply does not catch up with demand, it can be a serious negative in the longevity of the 300 Blk cartridge. I reload and have acquired case forming equipment so my bets are hedged.
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ZombieHorde
Member
No, the 300 Blackout's claim to fame are the following:
1) Only ONE part needed to swap from 5.56 to 300 Blackout (barrel) standard mags even work
2) The ability to shoot supersonic (110-130 gr) and subsonic (220+ gr) with only a mag change
As you can see, this solves none of those problems. Now if you wanted a cheap 30 cal AR-15 blaster, then yes it solves that problem. I will still continue reloading for my 300 blackout
1) Only ONE part needed to swap from 5.56 to 300 Blackout (barrel) standard mags even work
2) The ability to shoot supersonic (110-130 gr) and subsonic (220+ gr) with only a mag change
As you can see, this solves none of those problems. Now if you wanted a cheap 30 cal AR-15 blaster, then yes it solves that problem. I will still continue reloading for my 300 blackout
Let's ignore for the moment that one could want it for more than just that. Instead I'd like to focus in on the idea of accuracy. I shoot a lot of wolf ammo .223 ammo through my Noveske, an AR that most people would recognize as being capable of decent accuracy. If I am shooting from field positions with my T1 4 moa dot aimpoint I am not going to see much difference between the wolf and my own hand loads let alone the cheapest brass cased ammo I can find. For most of the shooting I do (training and drills) with an AR the cheapest steel case stuff I can find works just fine. The 7.62x39 ammo I shoot out of the various guns I have chambered for that cartridge also give adequate accuracy for those purposes. I wouldn't use the steel case for precision shooting, but that is not what the RRA is intended for nor the type of shooting most people do. Steel cased x39 easily gives acceptable accuracy for COM shots or shots on game out to 200 yards.
I don't see myself buying the RRA but I certainly would not be so dismissive of its usefulness or versatility.
One can shoot super sonic and subsonic 7.62x39 in those ranges. One issue with it in AKs is that it does not always cycle the action. I have no clue if it would with the RRA.
I certainly agree that the RRA is not going to fit the needs/desires of many people who are looking at the 300 BLK.
As to the OP's question, will the .300 Blackout become obsolete? I doubt it. It has too many things going for it. Plenty of factory ammo being made. Plenty of which is attractively priced. Recognized by SAMMI. Lots of bullet choices in several weights. Capable of Sub Sonic performance. Nothing needed except a new barrel and barrel device. Use the same mags, same lowers, same bolt/bolt carrier, etc. Brass is cheap enough, even if you buy it already made form .223 cases, even better if you make them yourself.
Anything else?
Anything else?
tahunua001
Member
this is interesting. unfortunately of the AR wildcat rounds, 300 blackout is the best established and is more than likely here to stay. it isn't going to be mainstream any time in the near future but it is going to limp on for the next 5 years at least(unless theres another gun ban). the 300 BLK does offer better ballistics than 300 whisper, 300 fireball, 7.62x39 and 7.62x40. I like the RRAs ability to use standard AK mags but if I really wanted a specialty caliber(besides the 9mm I already have) I would just get a 243 barrel for it and start loading 6x45MM. it would propel a 100gr projectile at velocities far superior to 300 blackout with greater accuracy over greater range than both 300 blk and 7.62x39 and would be still be legal in all 50 states for deer hunting. couple that with the BLKs ability to use standard AR mags, buffers and bolt carrier groups and you have a gun that's easy to find replacement parts for should it break or need upgrading. blk meets a lot of of those criteria but not all. I have no idea where I was going with that rant but I think I started out trying to say that the LAR47 is probably the best version of a 7.62x39 AR that I've seen thus far but it's not going to phase 300 BLK sales in the least and neither fact makes me want to go out and buy an AR chambered for either round.
viper7342
Member
If I did this, I wouldn't have bought anything in 5.56/223 either, as my local China/Wal Mart has been out of it for sometime and can't tell me when it will be back in stock. Thank goodness I reload and have been able to find new primed LC brass for $11.00 a hundred!
kimberkid
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I've got an AR in x39' which I've had since long befor the 300 was even heard of ... The only thing you need to shoot it reliably in an AR is the right mag. I've had several "franken-mags that worked fine and more recently C Products made a good one.
Here's a couple targets I shot at 100yds with some wolf ... I built this with a Model 1 sales kit for less than $700
Or if you warn a modern rifle designed for the x39, look at the SiG-556R ...
Here's a couple targets I shot at 100yds with some wolf ... I built this with a Model 1 sales kit for less than $700
Or if you warn a modern rifle designed for the x39, look at the SiG-556R ...
meanmrmustard
Member
300 AAC fills a niche with its subsonic ammo paired with a suppressor. True, AK ammo is very cheap (and not going away anytime soon), but methinks it's the lack of BOOM that'll keep the 300 At least available.
meanmrmustard
Member
Delusions, sir, delusions....and poor grammar.
I'll stick with what Stoner and Kalishnakov had in mind. As for folks bantering about the AR being the most popular rifle...maybe, but not most wide spread. I'd wager there's several AKs for every one AR/M4, M16 out there.
I have no interest in the Blackout, if I wanna blow **** up, I use an AK. End of story.
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FIVETWOSEVEN
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I've seen far more AR 15s at the range, gunshops and in people's collections than any variant of the AK here in the US. Yes there are more AKs outside of the US but the focus here is the United States.
Got a passel of them, too. None of them shoot like that Colt.
Point is, ARs are much easier to adapt a new cartridge without extensive gunsmith work.
And who the flip cares anyhow? It's all about enjoying our gun rights and options...
M
meanmrmustard
Member
Then you ain't been around much kiddo.
meanmrmustard
Member
Absolutely true. But, like I said, I just stick with 556 and 762. That's just me though.
I agree with some though, the Blackout isn't going anywhere.
The 300 blackout has a lot to offer over cheap surplus 7.62x39
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Q7EsIPGY8
they are the same
The 7.62x40 is the same concept as the .300BLK/Whisper, only optimized for the lighter supersonic loads. It's the .300 Blackout if it were designed for people who don't care about suppressors. I'm quite sure the .300 BLK can't beat the 7.62x40 with the same bullets loaded the way the cartridges were designed. It's the only reason the 7.62x40 exists, to be a better option for people who aren't going to buy a suppressor and would rather have a slightly more capable rifle cartridge.
meanmrmustard
Member
Hmmm...how cute. Delusion seems to be viral.Fixed it for you, sport.
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