au_prospector
Member
I saw a classic 92 .44-40. The owner said it was made in the 1920's and rechambered to .44 mag in the 1970s. Would that not cause problems?? He seemed to think the rifle was fine to shoot stout .44 mags.
Wincheste 92 in .44-40 rechambered to .44mag
- Thread starter au_prospector
- Start date
- Status
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
All the 92's later had very strong actions by then, and modifying them to .44 Mag was pretty common back in the day.
If it was done by someone who knew what they were doing, it should be fine.
The problen is, who knows who did it, or if it was done properly.
rc
If it was done by someone who knew what they were doing, it should be fine.
The problen is, who knows who did it, or if it was done properly.
rc
Last edited:
ThomasT
Member
You don't say but are you thinking of buying it? If you are I would want to shoot it first. And I thought the 44-40 had a .427 bore. If so you may want to watch the pressures you load to with the common .429-.430 bullets used in the 44 mag round.
And when it was rechambered that most likely killed the collector value so it shouldn't be worth what it was worth in the original condition.
And when it was rechambered that most likely killed the collector value so it shouldn't be worth what it was worth in the original condition.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
The good conversions were done with replacement barrels, bushed firing pin holes, new cartridge guides, etc,
Numrich arms sold replacement 92 barrels in .357 & .44 mag back then.
A gunsmith named Ward Koozer in Arizona had a cottage industry converting them in the 50's & 60's.
Needless to say he used better barrel blanks then Numrich was selling.
https://americanhandgunner.com/web-blast-sixgunlevergun-combinations/
rc
Numrich arms sold replacement 92 barrels in .357 & .44 mag back then.
A gunsmith named Ward Koozer in Arizona had a cottage industry converting them in the 50's & 60's.
Needless to say he used better barrel blanks then Numrich was selling.
https://americanhandgunner.com/web-blast-sixgunlevergun-combinations/
rc
tark
Member
Re-chambering to 44 MAG killed any and all collector value it may have had. Enjoy it as a shooter!
Jim Watson
Member
You can't really "rechamber" a .44-40 to .44 Magnum.
If you ran a Magnum reamer into a WCF chamber, you would have a mess, the straight Magnum would not clean up the tapered WCF. Not saying it wasn't tried, but if it was, it shouldn't have been.
True conversions required new barrels and a good bit of action work to feed the straight Magnum round instead of the tapered WCF the gun was designed for.
And lay off the "stout" .44 Magnums.
The action is strong, but the barrel shank is small. There was a thread here a while back about a '92 with distorted receiver ring.
If you ran a Magnum reamer into a WCF chamber, you would have a mess, the straight Magnum would not clean up the tapered WCF. Not saying it wasn't tried, but if it was, it shouldn't have been.
True conversions required new barrels and a good bit of action work to feed the straight Magnum round instead of the tapered WCF the gun was designed for.
And lay off the "stout" .44 Magnums.
The action is strong, but the barrel shank is small. There was a thread here a while back about a '92 with distorted receiver ring.
justin22885
member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
- Messages
- 2,102
yeah, an early 20th century '92 in 44-40 would have had a heck of a lot higher value than it does now having been converted... if people have something like that but they want a "shooter", instead of butchering something with value they should just go buy an R92 in the caliber they want.. probably be cheaper than a full conversion anyway
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
You had to have been there to understand it.
Old Winchesters with rusted out barrels were a dime a dozen back then before the collector market kicked in.
Not to mention in 1967.
A 50 round box of 44-40 cost $8.65.
A 50 round box of .44 Mag was only $8.50!
A 50 round box of .44 Special was only $6.45!
.357 Mag was $5.70!
Oh, and Gasoline was .27 cents a gallon!
rc
Old Winchesters with rusted out barrels were a dime a dozen back then before the collector market kicked in.
Not to mention in 1967.
A 50 round box of 44-40 cost $8.65.
A 50 round box of .44 Mag was only $8.50!
A 50 round box of .44 Special was only $6.45!
.357 Mag was $5.70!
Oh, and Gasoline was .27 cents a gallon!
rc
Last edited:
BCRider
Member
It would need to have had a new barrel put onto it. Or the old one would have at least needed to be cut down to set it back so the chamber could be cut into virgin barrel metal. And for that to happen it would be shorter than original now. Much of the .44-40 chamber is already larger than a .44Mag reamer.
If it was set back and the chamber re-cut you may be able to tell from the roll marking on the barrel. If it's got all the Winchester stamping and the old .44wcf is marked out and .44Mag is stamped in them it's a set back original. If none of that is there then it must be a replacement barrel.
If it was set back and the chamber re-cut you may be able to tell from the roll marking on the barrel. If it's got all the Winchester stamping and the old .44wcf is marked out and .44Mag is stamped in them it's a set back original. If none of that is there then it must be a replacement barrel.
Don McDowell
Member
That was a common occurrence, with those old 92's altho to go from 44-40 to 44 magnum would take either relining and chambering or a rebarrel and chamber. The base diameter of the 44-40 is much larger than a 44 mag case.
BSA1
member
A chamber cast and slugging the barrel will answer a lot of questions about the quality of the conversion.
ThomasT
Member
I was there but was only 10 years old at the time. So I didn't know anything about the gun stuff but do remember the gas prices. At 10 I had been mowing yards for a couple of years and remember when my parents would say there is a "gas war" going on. Whats a gas war? Thats where the local stations would keep lowering the prices to get more business. Sometimes they would be down to around 19 cents a gallon IIRC. We are relying on my soon to be 59 year old memory here.
But prices were so much lower then. So were the wages.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
I hunted with a family who father in law was a gunsmith. They had a 92 in .44 mag. and it shot just fine. It was commonplace back in the day to reblue an old gun when it needed it too. Old guns were a dime a dozen it seems.
ThomasT
Member
Mike Venturino made that point in one of his articles in Rifle Magazine. He came to Texas for a whitetail control hunt to thin out the deer and shot several with a 44-40. He stated the start velocity was only about 1100fps but every deer he shot out to a 100 yards or less was a complete pass through. He asked why do you need more power? Good question.
I guess the answer depends on what you want to do with a lever gun chambered in a pistol caliber round.
I guess the answer depends on what you want to do with a lever gun chambered in a pistol caliber round.
Given that this action used cartridges that were lower pressure than a 44 Magnum, and that the steels of the era are suspect, there is risk in using a higher pressure cartridge in this action. It is difficult to quantify the risk as it all depends on the metallurgy. Late 1920's is better than early 1920's, and the closer you get to 1900, the worse the metal gets. Not only were old actions made out of plain carbon steels, the steel was full of slag and inclusions. By the time you get to WW2, at least they are using alloys and process controls were better. Fpr example, the US Army made 1, 000,000 M1903's up to 1918 and there were no temperature gages in the factory. When steel was heated, eyeballs estimated the temperatures. Eyeballs were not accurate enough to judge the temperature and the Army determined that 33% of those old actions would fail in over pressure tests. Many failed with normal pressure cartridges. This was the technology of the era, and even in the mills, iron and steel were processed by eyeball.
Monitor the action for lug set back. If you have headspace gages, use those. Check the headspace of the action and if the headspace increases, stop shooting the thing. At some headspace increase too much case side wall will be out of the chamber and it will rupture.
Monitor the action for lug set back. If you have headspace gages, use those. Check the headspace of the action and if the headspace increases, stop shooting the thing. At some headspace increase too much case side wall will be out of the chamber and it will rupture.
Don McDowell
Member
Way back in the early 1900's winchester sold high velocity loads in the 3 wcf cartridges specifically to be used in the model 92. Those loads would generate pressure in the 35,000 range.
Then problem with chambering a 44-40 to 44 magnum, is going to come from the much larger case head of the 44-40, and while I haven't taken the time to drop a 44 mag case into a 44-40 revolver cylinder , I'm betting that the rim of the 44 would be lucky to catch on the rim recess, but in the lever gun the extractor may hold the case tight enough that the firing pin will hit the primer hard enough to set it off, but dollars to donuts just about every fired case is coming out with a split at worst and a monstrous bulge at best. Reloading for that isn't going to be a very pleasant experience.
Anybody with a decent reloading manual should be able to quickly and easily look at the case drawings and measurements and conclude that a simple rechamber isn't going to work to well..
Then problem with chambering a 44-40 to 44 magnum, is going to come from the much larger case head of the 44-40, and while I haven't taken the time to drop a 44 mag case into a 44-40 revolver cylinder , I'm betting that the rim of the 44 would be lucky to catch on the rim recess, but in the lever gun the extractor may hold the case tight enough that the firing pin will hit the primer hard enough to set it off, but dollars to donuts just about every fired case is coming out with a split at worst and a monstrous bulge at best. Reloading for that isn't going to be a very pleasant experience.
Anybody with a decent reloading manual should be able to quickly and easily look at the case drawings and measurements and conclude that a simple rechamber isn't going to work to well..
I still have the 92 that my brother and I bought in the sixties for $45. We did send it Ward Koozer who rebarrelled it to 357. He did nice work. Flaigs in Florida was well known for doing the 44 mag conversions, for about $60 if I remember correctly.
Back then, no harm, no foul. Winchester lever actions could be bought new for a C-note and the 92s, while long out of print could be had for half that.
Back then, no harm, no foul. Winchester lever actions could be bought new for a C-note and the 92s, while long out of print could be had for half that.
au_prospector
Member
Okay I saw it today....
Unfortunately I dont know much about this type of rifle. To me it looked brand new. The owner stated he had not fired it since the conversion which was done in the 1970's. Been sitting in a safe. The gunsmith work was done by someone in Pennsylvania, the old fellow could not remember off the top of his head.
New high grade walnut stock, plus the original stock comes with.
New barrel indeed purchased through Numrich. This is marked Winchester 92 44 Mag
Firing pin bushing.
All other parts had a high black/blue finish which matched the barrel.
What else should I look for?
What kind of value would this have?
Unfortunately I dont know much about this type of rifle. To me it looked brand new. The owner stated he had not fired it since the conversion which was done in the 1970's. Been sitting in a safe. The gunsmith work was done by someone in Pennsylvania, the old fellow could not remember off the top of his head.
New high grade walnut stock, plus the original stock comes with.
New barrel indeed purchased through Numrich. This is marked Winchester 92 44 Mag
Firing pin bushing.
All other parts had a high black/blue finish which matched the barrel.
What else should I look for?
What kind of value would this have?
- Status
