Winchester brass.

[Obturation]

Hey all,
Hope everyone's doing well and keeping busy .
I thought I'd share some thoughts and experiences with winchester brass to see if others feel the same or if I've just been unlucky.

I don't typically separate pistol brass by headstamp but it seems most brass that doesn't pass inspection is winchester. I've had dozens of their cases that had rim thickness variation so great that the case wouldn't fit in the shell holder in 357 mag and now in 454 casull as well.

I've known about the 357 brass for a while now but it became very obvious earlier this year when I got some factory winchester ammo with a freedom arms revolver. Several rounds would not allow the cylinder to turn in the FA due to rim thickness - they chambered fine in a SRH and I know the FA is a tight chamber and close tolerance gun. Didn't think much of it.

I went to reload those cases and 2 out of 56 also wouldn't fit in the shell holder. 3 others had primer pockets too loose for my taste and all but 10 were below minimum trim length. So out of 56 I ended up with 10 useable cases. I understand I can load the short cases but I wont, I trim to a consistent length for proper flaring and crimping.

After the other issues I've had with it I just have zero confidence in their components. I don't see how the tolerances are that poor. If the dimensions are that far off it makes me concerned about materials and all other aspects of the product. I'm certainly not going to test it out with loads in excess of 50,000 psi.

Anyone else noticed this type of trouble with winchester brass or is it only me? It's sad that the lowest quality A-usa & xtreme cases are better than winchester. I wouldn't mention it but it's been on going. Half the time a case gets rejected its normally winchester , far and away more than any other brand or even as much as all other brands combined , give or take.

I haven't had any issue with winchester brass in 30-30 but I've only loaded about 100 total 30 wcf rounds - I've got about 500 win. Cases in 30-30 that are once fired and ready for loading so when I get to that project I guess I'll see if the issues are present on them too.

 

[JO JO]

The only Winchester brass I have and use is 9mm and no issue for me,
For my 44 mag I use starline and they have held up well

 

[Ironicaintit]

The only cartridge I load where Winchester brass totally sucks is 380acp. I don’t bother checking anything, I just throw it away.

I don’t think I’ve even loaded it in 357 or 38. With those I have a ton of Midway brass that is great.

Winchester brass is one of my favorites in 45acp.

 

[Bwana John]

Your sample size is too small to conclude ALL Winchester brass is bad.

That lot possibly.

 

[Hartkopf]

9mm WIN brass has been very good over the last year for me. 40S&W has been ok but not bad. No real problems though.

 

[Obturation]

Your sample size is too small to conclude ALL Winchester brass is bad.

That lot possibly.

I agree. I haven't concluded all is bad, that's what this thread is about - to ask others if they have similar experiences. It just strikes me as odd that it's one specific brand that is problematic repeatedly.

 

[Rod47]

Not my favorite 50 yrs ago. Overall length sll over the place. Same thing today!

 

[sparkyv]

I've reloaded a few thousand rounds of Winchester pistol brass in 9mm, 40S&W, 44 Mag, and a few hundreds of 6.5CM and 308 Win all good, no issues. I like it, but prefer Starline. Maybe OP got a bad batch(es)?

That lot possibly.

 

[Obturation]

I've reloaded a few thousand rounds of Winchester pistol brass in 9mm, 40S&W, 44 Mag, and a few hundreds of 6.5CM and 308 Win all good, no issues. I like it, but prefer Starline. Maybe OP got a bad batch(es)?

If it's bad batches then there's a lot of it out there, 2 different chamberings - 357 mag & 454 casull. Cases certainly made many years apart.
Maybe it's more inconsistent for revolver brass . or possibly the brass used for factory loaded ammo, that's what all that I have is. I've never bought new winchester brass cases , it's all come as loaded rounds.

 

[Reeferman]

I have some Winchester 357 brass that have been loaded so many times the head stamps are getting hard to read. I lost count a long time ago. Most of my loads are light to upper medium so that may be helping. I’ve had a few case mouths crack and some with primer pockets loose that some would throw away but I’ve not had any issues with those. Same with Winchester 44 magnum cases.
All my 38 special are Federal cases and have had the same experience with them. I have all Starline for 45 Colt but only have a few reloads with them so can say yet how well they will last for.
Same with Winchester 45/70 brass.

 

[Riomouse911]

I have also had rim thickness issues with occasional WW brass, in .38, .357 and .44 mag. Those will be tight, or not fit at all, in my Lee or RCBS shellholders. It's not all of them, just an occasional one.

Those that are too thick I pinch with pliers and pitch so I don't waste my time with them again.

Stay safe.

 

[Obturation]

I have some Winchester 357 brass that have been loaded so many times the head stamps are getting hard to read. I lost count a long time ago. Most of my loads are light to upper medium so that may be helping. I’ve had a few case mouths crack and some with primer pockets loose that some would throw away but I’ve not had any issues with those. Same with Winchester 44 magnum cases.
All my 38 special are Federal cases and have had the same experience with them. I have all Starline for 45 Colt but only have a few reloads with them so can say yet how well they will last for.
Same with Winchester 45/70 brass.

Is there a difference between brass headstamped WIN and WW? I believe the brass with the WIN headstamp account for more of the reject cases.

 

[cfullgraf]

I've had some 9x19 WCC brass that would not fit my shell holder. I've taken to scrapping those cases instead of trying to deal with them.

TK Custom makes two different thickness moon clips for 38 Special ammunition. R-P and Starline cases use one thickness and the others use a slightly thicker moon clip. I have lots of different head stamp 38 Special cases but have decided to keep R-P and Starline cases for my moon clip use and the other head stamps cases for other uses.

 

[LiveLife]

winchester brass ... it seems most brass that doesn't pass inspection is winchester. I've had dozens of their cases that had rim thickness variation so great that the case wouldn't fit in the shell holder in 357 mag and now in 454 casull as well.

Anyone else noticed this type of trouble with winchester brass or is it only me? It's sad that the lowest quality A-usa & xtreme cases are better than winchester

Can't speak for .357/454 brass but here's myth busting we did for 9mm brass and Winchester was one of more consistent brass along with Starline - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

Based on that myth busting thread findings, I now primarily use WIN and RP headstamp brass for my pistol accuracy testing.

Since these are range brass, could these brass been overly expanded by someone else before you got them?

 

[BCR#1]

The only pistol brass I have sizing problems with are .40 S&W that were shot out of striker fired plastic junk with un-supported chambers.

Bill

 

[ballman6711]

I have a lot of Winchester brass, all of it from factory loaded ammo purchased over many years before I started loading.

I do notice that the "feel" is all over the place on my ss press. Sizing, expanding, priming and seating feel different on most cases, but I haven't had any problems with it.

chris

 

[bersaguy]

I've loaded a fair amount of Winchester 45 auto brass, and its probably my favorite among range pickup brass in that caliber. I do get some every now and again that won't go into the shell holder when I go to deprime them, I just chuck those and move on. Right now, I think all my 357 brass is federal, and haven't had any issues there.

 

[Obturation]

Since these are range brass, could these brass been overly expanded by someone else before you got them?

Not really. I have bought a couple batches of 357 brass "once fired" from the net but the vast majority has come from factory ammo I bought & fired that includes all of the 454 cases.

What I'm wondering is if there is a difference between what's sold commercially as factory loaded rounds VS sold as just brass cases specifically for reloaders. Also if there's a difference between the 2 headstamps in common use (ww & win).

I don't want to give the wrong impression (if I have), I have hundreds of winchester cases that have been in use for years without issues, it's first time they are on my bench that the inconsistencys are noticed and the cases discarded. Not that they fail from use.

Has anyone else noticed what I'll call "the thick rim" - the case that won't fit the shell holder , on any other brand? I don't think I have , of course an odd case here and there from any maker will sneak by I notice however it's pretty much always the winchester brass with this condition.

I know brass lengths vary a lot but when a case is .005- .010" below minimum trim length when checked after being fired one time (and without a doubt , never been trimmed) that's a pain for me. I won't put that brass into circulation. I can't have random brass that when a bullet is seated to proper length the cannalure/groove is far above the case mouth.

I hope no one here sees this as an attempt to bash any brand, I don't do that. I'm just putting my perception out there and listening if others have found the same.

 

[lordpaxman]

I’ve not had any rim thickness problems with Winchester brass in any calibers. Most of mine is range pickup, but most likely from LE firings. Some is factory as well. For some reason I’m attracted to the WINCHESTER spelled out on .45 ACP headstamps. Weird.

 

[blue32]

The last 100 round value pack of 45 auto I had from two years ago all had extremely tight primer pockets. Used a hand tool to open them up a bit and chamfer the pocket. It was comparable to S&B brass in the same cartridge - to the scrap bucket with you. I used to think Win pistol brass was tops and have plenty of older cases to prove it but not so much for the newer stuff. Its definitely not the couple WCC headstamped cases I've lucked into from '52 - '67 that are still going strong.

 

[LeftyTSGC]

I use Winchester brass, range pickup, for all my handgun reloads. I have used thousands of pieces, I have not come across that rate of failures in over that past 6 years that I have been reloading. Instead of looking at the brass, have you checked your equipment? just in case something got misaligned or dented or something. I know we don't want to think that our equipment is bad, but you need to rule that out. Also, is this all from one batch of brass? If so, as mentioned you may have one bad batch. I use Winchester for 9mm, 357mag, 38sp, and .45LC. Or it may just be that specific firearm could be out of alignment somehow?

 

[Charlie98]

I use, and have used, a lot of WW brass over the years. They were, for example, the only source for .348WCF brass for many years. I use WW brass primarily in .45 Colt, but I have a bunch of the 'Winchester' .45 ACP brass... and there are some differences in that. Some have a very thin rim, almost like it's beveled at the edge, and some appears like standard cases.

I have some older WW 9mm cases... they are just as good as my RP and PMC 9mm brass from the same era. I scrap the newer WCC stamped brass because some of it has crimped primer pockets, and it's not worth my time. I've not had any problems with newer WIN 9mm brass, but I haven't loaded any in some time... preferring RP and PMC brass.

 

[Reeferman]

Now that I think about it there might be something to this. I noticed the last bag of Winchester 44 magnum brass I bought I had an issue with my LNL AP ejecting loaded cartridges. It was only a half dozen or so out of a hundred but this has never happed before. The rim jammed on the plate ejection nub. It only happed with this batch of cases.
I will have to find the batch I loaded and check the rim thickness.

 

[375supermag]

Hi...
I have used Winchester brass along with numerous other brands for decades of reloading and shooting going back to the early-mid 80s with no problems.

I usually use Winchester brass for my full power loads and keep those lots of brass separate for that purpose.

I have had maybe half a dozen pieces of brass in my experience that wouldn't fit in shell holder. All that I can recall had a burr on the cartridge base, never too thick a rim that I can recall.

I reload across the spectrum of handgun and rifle cartridges and can't identify any problems with Winchester brass over multiple calibers and decades that entails reloading many tens of thousands of rounds
.

 

[Paul Toms]

Last year I bought a bag (100?) of brand new 357 Sig Winchester brass. On every piece the overall length was correct, but the shoulder had been pressed back way too far to chamber correctly. Winchester was very apologetic and refunded my money. Trust but verify. I wouldn't think twice about using Winchester again.