Wise arse remark?

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When you are a cop I guess you see the worst of humanity every day. Whether you like it or not you may get a sense of humanity through that occupational prism. It starts to affect your worldview.
You know the old saying, "occupational hazard".
Perhaps he's just thinking in legal terms or is just concerned about another armed citizen that may misuse a firearm. Spare me the paperwork?
The answer that he gave sounded like a rote automatic answer without much thought to it.
If he was properly assessing the situation and really felt the family was in serious danger, he may have mentioned buying a gun and getting proper firearms training.
Most people glean what firearms knowledge that they have from the entertainment media that they watch. I've seen it at the range. Absolutely awful.
 
Well, let me say again that I don't support what the cop said, but to address one specific question:

And yes, perhaps next time he would keep his opinions to himself instead of influencing someone else into buying a whistle instead of a handgun...you can't possibly think THAT is a good idea.

Honestly, sometimes I think that is true. Maybe not a whistle or a noisemaker, but I think there are plenty of people out there that have no business carrying a gun. I am not arguing about their right to do so, instead I am arguing that there are people that buy a gun, never shoot a round through it, don't do things like go to a basic pistol course, aren't particularly safe, and don't carry in such a way as to give themselves immediate access. Could a gun have prevented this murder? Absolutely it could have. Could she have gotten murdered even if she had a gun? Absolutely.

To give you an example of what I am talking about, I give you my mom. My mom carries a Ruger revolver in her glovebox wrapped in a sock. She has never fired it, and honestly, with her arthritis, she has no business practicing with either .357 of .38 special loads. She hasn't shot any sort of handgun in probably 20 years. Put bluntly, there isn't a chance in the world that that gun is going to alter my mom's ability to keep from getting murdered. What might keep her from getting murdered (notice, I say "might") is the fact that she hauls around pepper spray, a cell phone and a rape whistle. Fact is, my mom is never going to carry a pistol nor is she going to regularly practice, regardless of the fact that I harp on her constantly about it. Her desire to keep a pistol on her person at all times is about the same as my desire to become a ballet dancer.

Does that mean that my mom is setting herself up to be a victim? Compared to Clint Smith, yes. Compared to a whole lot of other women, no. I don't think that the detective had any place saying what he did, but neither is he wholly incorrect in his advice. Maybe if your daughters friend would have had pepper-spray, she would still be alive today, but that statement is just as true for a gun. Frankly, if you don't have the mindset to use it, a gun is about as useful as a lead pipe.

Now, just to be clear, let me say for a third time that I don't agree with what the detective said. Your advice to your kid was, in my opinion, good advice. It doesn't change my opinion that just letting things drop at that point was the best thing to do, as you can talk to your kid after he leaves. Just remember that simply having a gun isn't the answer. Practice, availability, mindset and situational awareness are all absolutely necessary to make having a gun useful for defense.

Edit to add: What I REALLY disagree with is that the cop said she might have been disarmed and killed with her gun. Aside from the mostly philosophical points I have made, I hate the idea that this cop was essentially saying that fighting back is the wrong move, particularly given that she was in fact killed. For all that I just said about my mom, the one thing that she absolutely has going for her is that she will not just meekly roll over and let someone rob her or whatever. All citizens in general and women in particular need to get past this pansy idea that fighting back is somehow the worst possible choice. Dang it, if someone steps into your perimeter, you should fight with everything you have. A person that resists is much less likely to be a victim than one that simply rolls over and hopes for the best, at least in my opinion.
 
A person that resists is much less likely to be a victim than one that simply rolls over and hopes for the best, at least in my opinion.

The FBI statistics back up your opinion, making it, in my opinion, more than just mere opinion. :)
 
The FBI statistics back up your opinion, making it, in my opinion, more than just mere opinion.
It depends on HOW you resist. Unarmed resistance can actually increase your chances of injury.

Resisting with a firearm is the best approach, statistically speaking, but resistance with a knife or simply with physical force can increase your chances of injury by as much as double.

http://www.skepticfiles.org/conspire/gun2doc.htm
Self Defense Method Against Robbery vs Percent Injured
Gun--->17.4%
Other weapon--->22.0%
No resistance--->24.7%
Other measures--->26.5%
Threaten or reason with attacker--->30.7%
Nonviolent resistance and evasion--->34.9%
Knife--->40.3%
Tried to get help or frighten attacker--->48.9%
Physical force--->50.8%


Self Defense Method Against Assault vs Percent Injured
Gun--->12.1%
Other measures--->20.7%
Threaten or reason with attacker--->24.7%
Other weapon--->25.1%
Nonviolent resistance and evasion--->25.5%
No resistance--->27.3%
Knife--->29.5%
Tried to get help or frighten attacker--->40.1%
Physical force--->52.1%
 
Then why doesn't said police detective carry a noisemaker? Can't someone take a gun away from him too? What a hypocrite!
 
Carry a noise making device? Who pays any real attention to such things? When is the last time anybody actually reacted to a car alarm going off?
If something happened right in front of my house maybe I'd check out the window.
 
I'm not anti officer here. But I must say most officers I know aren't very smart, or well educated. Most of them I know only became officers because they coulden't hack in another field. Coulden't be an engineer, coulden't be a mechanic, coulden't be loan agent... become an officer! Almost to a "T" they are ALL bullies. And will and have infringed on people's 1st and 2nd amendment rights with the threat of "taking them to jail".
good luck
-bix
 
the cop was out of line. not only for his opinion but for his attitude - most depts teach public relations and this dude fell asleep that day in class. my wife , all four children and the grandkids either carry or are trained in firearm self defense i doubt any would not hesitate to react to an iminent threat that put them in fear of their life, unprovoked by them, while going about their lawful business -and thats the way it should be

and nobody wants grandpa to get involved
 
just remember that cops arent always 'our friends'

i live in el cajon, california. its a suburb in east san diego county. the friendly el cajon police officers once yanked me out of my car waving his gun around because my brothers girlfriendflicked a cigarette out of her window while i was driving [thats illegal here]. just seeing one pull something like that shys me off of getting a CCW permit for fear of weather or not they shoot first and ask questions later.

my grand father has alzhiemers and wears a little bracelet saying so and where to return him if found. he once decided to go on a little trip and when the san diego county sheriff picked him up he had the nerve to YELL at my 83 year old grand mother and TELL her that ha needs to have a bracelet stating his medical condition. when she pointed out that HE DID AND THAT IT WAS ON HIS WRIST the officer got mad because he looked like an idiot and started bitching about how he had to waste his time looking for my grandfather and not sitting on his... well, ill be nice and just say do whatever else it was he needed to do


thats 0 for 2 here in san diego county... im guessing that since im 5'11", average build, ~160 pounds, they will assume im a drug addict [many people have mistaken me for one in my life... gets kinda old] and shoot me when i told them i had a gun. anyone follow me??
 
just remember that cops arent always 'our friends'

i live in el cajon, california. its a suburb in east san diego county. the friendly el cajon police officers once yanked me out of my car waving his gun around because my brothers girlfriendflicked a cigarette out of her window while i was driving [thats illegal here]. just seeing one pull something like that shys me off of getting a CCW permit for fear of weather or not they shoot first and ask questions later.

my grand father has alzhiemers and wears a little bracelet saying so and where to return him if found. he once decided to go on a little trip and when the san diego county sheriff picked him up he had the nerve to YELL at my 83 year old grand mother and TELL her that ha needs to have a bracelet stating his medical condition. when she pointed out that HE DID AND THAT IT WAS ON HIS WRIST the officer got mad because he looked like an idiot and started bitching about how he had to waste his time looking for my grandfather and not sitting on his... well, ill be nice and just say do whatever else it was he needed to do


thats 0 for 2 here in san diego county... im guessing that since im 5'11", average build, ~160 pounds, they will assume im a drug addict [many people have mistaken me for one in my life... gets kinda old] and shoot me when i told them i had a gun. anyone follow me??
 
just remember that cops arent always 'our friends'

i live in el cajon, california. its a suburb in east san diego county. the friendly el cajon police officers once yanked me out of my car waving his gun around because my brothers girlfriendflicked a cigarette out of her window while i was driving [thats illegal here]. just seeing one pull something like that shys me off of getting a CCW permit for fear of weather or not they shoot first and ask questions later.

my grand father has alzhiemers and wears a little bracelet saying so and where to return him if found. he once decided to go on a little trip and when the san diego county sheriff picked him up he had the nerve to YELL at my 83 year old grand mother and TELL her that ha needs to have a bracelet stating his medical condition. when she pointed out that HE DID AND THAT IT WAS ON HIS WRIST the officer got mad because he looked like an idiot and started bitching about how he had to waste his time looking for my grandfather and not sitting on his... well, ill be nice and just say do whatever else it was he needed to do


thats 0 for 2 here in san diego county... im guessing that since im 5'11", average build, ~160 pounds, they will assume im a drug addict [many people have mistaken me for one in my life... gets kinda old] and shoot me when i told them i had a gun. anyone follow me??
 
just remember that cops arent always 'our friends'

i live in el cajon, california. its a suburb in east san diego county. the friendly el cajon police officers once yanked me out of my car waving his gun around because my brothers girlfriendflicked a cigarette out of her window while i was driving [thats illegal here]. just seeing one pull something like that shys me off of getting a CCW permit for fear of weather or not they shoot first and ask questions later.

my grand father has alzhiemers and wears a little bracelet saying so and where to return him if found. he once decided to go on a little trip and when the san diego county sheriff picked him up he had the nerve to YELL at my 83 year old grand mother and TELL her that ha needs to have a bracelet stating his medical condition. when she pointed out that HE DID AND THAT IT WAS ON HIS WRIST the officer got mad because he looked like an idiot and started bitching about how he had to waste his time looking for my grandfather and not sitting on his... well, ill be nice and just say do whatever else it was he needed to do


thats 0 for 2 here in san diego county... im guessing that since im 5'11", average build, ~160 pounds, they will assume im a drug addict [many people have mistaken me for one in my life... gets kinda old] and shoot me when i told them i had a gun. anyone follow me??
 
my dad told me the first thing im doing when i turn 21 is getting my CCW. :cool:

only gotta wait like 4 more years....
 
I would let it go in the moment. Not the time or place.
My girlfriend enrolled in a women's self defense class that starts in a couple weeks. One of my shooter friends and I encouraged her but offered to take her to the range and also encouraged her to get a gun(and learn how to use it...etc) We practice regularly and as someone else mentioned, its a hobby as well as a means of self protection. She was, and still is, completely not interested in shooting. We told her that even with the self defense class, a 5'9" 130lb girl is no match for a determined male. Later, a bit more privately, i told her that if she didn't like guns, thats fine but she should at least come to the range with me and try it out. I'm all for women shooting and carrying (honestly, theres nothing hotter than a girl with a high-powered rifle and knows how to use it) but not if they don't want to. The only time a having a gun is more dangerous than not having one is when you don't know how to use it.
 
Now, just to be clear, let me say for a third time that I don't agree with what the detective said. Your advice to your kid was, in my opinion, good advice. It doesn't change my opinion that just letting things drop at that point was the best thing to do, as you can talk to your kid after he leaves. Just remember that simply having a gun isn't the answer. Practice, availability, mindset and situational awareness are all absolutely necessary to make having a gun useful for defense.
I have to agree with this. The cop's negative attitude could have been tempered with something like: "Unless you're willing to go all the way and get proper training, I would have to suggest against buying a handgun." Instead he came off as an arrogant putz. You were the bigger man and did fine as a daddy.;)
 
Perhaps advising a woman that has recently been involved in some "situation" to arm herself was not the best advice for the moment. Perhaps the officer didn't like you stealing his thunder as the "expert" on the scene. I only bring this up after watching 3 young woman at a gun show trying to buy .44 mag snubbies because .357's seem too weak. Yes they wanted pink grips too. Point being: CCW is a commitment to train and conduct yourself in a certain manner. It's too much of a personal decision to be made by anyone but the individual. Advice pro or con would require the adviser to know the potential CCW'r very well.
 
That was right near my residence, wow, that was a blast from the past, and folks saw the whole thing and no one helped, "Kitty Genovese". People will walk right over a body in NY, at least before 9-11, I left in 94, so I can't say what the general attitude is, but if anything it's probablly worse. It's like a mental shutdown, they just won't get involved. I know most of the guys and gals in here would, but the general population, I'm not sure at all.
 
The question was answered to the OP's apparent satisfaction by Post #16. Three more pages of the same is piling on... and the constant three-letter references to donkeys is a bit much.

lpl/nc
 
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