Wolf ammo in 223

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Great Article Posted On Cheaperthandirt...

"If you’ve been shooting for very long, especially as ammunition prices have risen in the past two years, you’ve no doubt noticed the large amount of inexpensive steel cased ammunition available. It’s hard to pass it up: prices for steel cased ammunition are almost half that of traditional brass cased ammo. But take it out to the range and it won’t be long before you hear the “tsk tsk” of other shooters, shaking their heads and commenting on how horrible it is to run steel cased ammunition in an AR-15 style rifle.

But is steel cased ammo really so bad? Is it safe to shoot steel cased ammunition in your AR-15?

Let’s own up to a few facts first. Discount steel cased ammunition is, in general, dirtier and smellier than mil-spec Lake City manufactured 5.56 NATO ammunition. It’s not quite as accurate, but most shooters won’t miss a half-MOA here or there.

Now, on to some myth busting. Modern production steel cased ammunition is NOT corrosive, even when berdan primed. It won’t destroy your extractor, and it won’t accelerate wear on your bore. The ferrous bi-metal jackets found on most steel cased ammunition will not damage the rifling of your AR, and are perfectly safe to use on any rifle rated backstop.

So what do you need to do to run steel cased ammunition in your AR-15? First, you’ll need to make sure that your AR-15 is very well lubricated. Dripping wet some might say; especially the bolt carrier group. You’ll need to clean your rifle more often when shooting steel cased ammunition, at least once every 500 rounds, although you could get away with letting it go for up to 1,000 rounds. Because steel cased ammunition results in more carbon build up, it’s important to use a high quality solvent like M-Pro 7 along with a synthetic lubricant. Make sure to throughly clean your bolt, paying close attention to the bolt face and extractor. It’s usually a good idea to remove the extractor to clean underneath as well. You’ll also need to make sure to thoroughly clean the chamber, so picking up an M16/AR-15 chamber brush is a good idea.

Steel cased ammunition is generally loaded lighter than standard military loads, so it’s important that your gas system runs well. Some AR rifles have smaller gas ports and won’t cycle well with the reduced power loads found in some steel cased ammunition. If you find this is a problem, switching to higher power steel cased ammunition such as our Wolf Military Classic may resolve this issue. Using a lower weight buffer or a lighter buffer spring can also be necessary when shooting steel cased ammo.

Steel cased ammunition is available with three different types of coatings. Older steel cased ammunition was usually found with a lacquer finish to help prevent rust and corrosion of the case. Brown Bear ammunition still uses this coating. Some AR-15 rifles begin to have problems with lacquer coated steel cased ammunition as heat begins to build up. Switching to modern production steel cased ammo with polymer coatings sometimes alleviates this problem, but in other cases it is necessary to use zinc coated steel cased ammunition such as Silver Bear.

The best way to avoid extraction problems due to stuck cases is to use an AR-15 with a 5.56mm chamber. Differences in headspacing between 5.56 and .223 chambers can cause steel cased .223 or 5.56mm ammunition to get stuck as the metal heats up. Even Wylde chambers and other .223/5.56 hybrid chambers have been known to have issues with stuck spent steel casings. Stick with a true 5.56mm chamber and, as we mentioned above, remember to scrub the chamber out every 500-1000 rounds to ensure reliability.

Steel cased ammo may have gotten a bad rap in the past, but there’s really nothing wrong with it. So go for it! Some AR snobs may sneer at the mere thought of running steel cased ammo through their precious rifle, but you know better now. Save some money when plinking and try out steel cased ammunition. Most AR-15 rifles run it just fine with no problems at all."
 
My Sig 556 has been doing fine with it, even made a roughly 2 inch group at 100 yards with Wolf after I put a 2-7X Burris scope on it. It'd probably make a 1.5 inch group if I was a better shot.
 
Hey I am a fan of steel cased ammunition, when it comes to .223.

I reload for all my calibers except .223. And, with all the other calibers I reload for accuracy.

BUT- For my AR and my Ruger Ranch Rifle, and my Golani Sporter, I use Wolf or Brown Bear or whatever is the cheapest at the moment. And guess what, I have never had a misfire once. Also, accuracy is not a problem; I don't see the need for super accuracy if I'm defending myself for real with one of my .223 shooters. I always hit the man-sized targets at 100 meters with the steel cased rounds. With all my .223's these Asian rounds shoot every time and are fairly accurate.

What more could I want? I do not want to get in a target match with one of my .223's against a reloader. I want a reliable round that will hit a reasonable target. And the "cheap" Russian steel cartridge ammunition gives me just what I need at a price that lets me shoot a lot of rounds through my guns.
 
It states in the owners manual for my CMMG AR15 that warranty is voided if Wolf ammo is used. Maybe I should have bought a different rifle or maybe they are right?
 
Cemo I did not know that about CMMG. Bushmaster and Del-Ton say do not use steel case ammo but if you have to only in chromed lined weapons.
 
Problem with me is I like Silverbear and still shoot it but I get a guilty conscience when I do.
 
It really seems to me that when a manufacturer does that crap with voiding the warranty when you use steel cases ammo, they are just looking for an excuse or an out and just reducing what you could ultimately be responsible for. In my mind, if your AR won't run on steel cased ammo, there's something wrong with your rifle. When ever I get my hands on a rifle that won't run steel, I "fix" it.
 
I've heard steel case will wear more on the extractor. Anyone ever had to replace theirs early?
I don't believe this is a problem, but the price difference between Wolf and brass-cased ammo will buy you a spare extractor after only a few boxes.
 
Tony out of 6 ARs I own I never have a problem with Silverbear in 4 of them. The 20 and 24" Varminter and predator do not function properly with it as we discussed in another thread.

The only info I have gotten from manufactures is they do not think the stuff is good for the chamber and causes higher erosion rates than would be otherwise anticipated. That's why they recommend it only in chrome lined if you are gonna use it at all.

Most will never see problems for they don't shoot 2000+ rounds every week.

Those who shoot Wolf and other polymer coated ammo probably ( I don't know ) never heat the chamber and barrel enough to have some of the problems others do. Again my range guy will not let individuals use polymer coated ammo in his rental guns because in his experience it does FTE and cause problems for his rental guns..The people who rent think it is fun to bump fire and shoot a 100 rounds as fast as they can, so I understand his concerns.

Again you and I both know those who have used the steel case whatever for years and are totally happy.
 
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Some AR-15 rifles begin to have problems with lacquer coated steel cased ammunition as heat begins to build up.

A more accurate statement might be "Lacquer coated steel cased ammunition is blamed for problems in some AR-15 rifles as they begin to heat up." I have personally never been able to remove the lacquer from a steel case by heating it.

I also noticed that Hornady's steel cased training ammo started out with a polymer or zinc coating (grey steel) but now uses lacquered steel cases that look just like Wolf.

I've definitely seen enough ARs and other rifles that have trouble with steel case ammo when the rifle gets hot to believe that there is an issue there; but I don't think the lacquer is causing it. My WAG is that the different thermal transfer rates of steel and brass are the culprit.
 
Mr. Roberts as usual you make a good point.

How many good comments does it take to wipe out one bad one?

At the price of steel case ammo you can probably buy a couple of new xyz weapons for the money you save over time if you are a heavy shooter!
 
Yeah, I heard a guy at the range last Sunday telling a youngster (to me), don't shoot that in your rifle, the lacquer will come off of the case and gum up your chamber. I usually don't say anything when people do/say something stupid. I've been guilty of it myself, but in this case, I had to say something.

I guess for many, it's an excuse for having a rifle that doesn't run right and for others, they just plain miss out on the cost savings due to misinformation.

I do know that some rifles won't run steel. In the cases that I've dealt with, slowing things down, with either a heavier buffer or bolt carrier or decreasing the has flow seemed to fix things right up. I have noticed that the problem is more prevalent in non chrome lined barrels. Maybe it's something as simple as the chrome lining being slicker.
 
Steel-case .223 Wolf ammo is sub-standard, and will tie up a lot of AR-15's

There is an extremely outspoken minority on this site who will shriek every time somebody says anything against Wolf ammo.
First they will tell you to "break in" your rifle some more.
Then, if the Wolf still fails they will insist that your rifle is "defective."
Lastly they will begin preaching about how they "wouldn't own a rifle that won't shoot Wolf."

I've had bad luck with Wolf in both of my AR-15's.
After about one magazine, it starts short-cycling until a case seizes in the chamber, and the extractor rips the rim off.
On top of that, its underpowered.

Don't use it.

One is a full-length Armalite A2 with standard rifle buffer (chamber appears to be chrome - cannot say for sure about the bore).

Other is a Chrome-lined J&T-sourced 10.5 SBR with H2 buffer (rips rims with, and without, the Gemtech HALO suppressor).

After about one magazine, each rifle starts short-cycling until a case seizes in the chamber, and the extractor rips the rim off.

Neither of my guns are problematic with quality BRASS-CASED ammunition.

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Seriously, you can try some of that stuff in your rifle if you want.



I recommend that you load three mags each with 20 rounds.



Fire the first mag quickly without pausing.



If the gun has not choked by the end of the first mag, quickly insert the second mag.



Quickly fire 10 rounds from the second mag.



Cease fire.



Wait one minute try to fire the next shot (shot #11 second mag).



If the gun has not choked yet, fire four more shots.



Cease fire.



Wait one minute, and fire the remaining rounds in the mag.



Quickly insert the final mag, and fire all 20 rounds in rapid succession.



If the gun has not choked by the end of the third mag, you may conclude that your rifle *probably* tolerates lacquer-coated, steel-case ammo.



Otherwise, remember to bring a stiff cleaning rod to the range to bang the stuck cases from the chamber, and remember the stuck cases will be HOT.

The cleaning rod will also become extremely hot after two insertions in a hot bore.



This is what steel-case ammo (lacquer AND poly) do in the two AR’s from my collection.

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W.E.G. good post. That is why I believe the general hunters never see the problems; they never shoot consecutive rounds down range.

Thinking back on the 4 ARs that I tend to shoot Silverbear in the hottest they have ever gotten is when I zero a new scope in. Hunting does not use much ammo...or at least not in my little patch of the woods. I just very very very rarely ( if ever?) get the weapon so hot that I wouldn't be able to pick the thing up by the barrel if I wanted to.
 
I shoot some Wolf and mostly Barnaul (zinc plated shells, not the lacquered ones!) exclusively in my 14.5" AR-15. Not a single problem and zero malfunctions so far. I have about 3500-4000 rounds through it so far.


edited to add: I've never experienced malfunctions with lacquered cases, but the ammo I used was really unprecise/inaccurate. The zinc plated ammo also feels and looks much nicer, and feels to me like they are of a better quality. I don't know if that ammo is available in the US, so I'll post some pictures of it later...

edit2: I've not read all the posts in this thread before answering myself:eek:

W.E.G., I'm not surprised you had problems with Wolf ammo, I've seen a couple of rifles (ARs and Sig 550s) fail at the range when shooting Wolf. I realise that my post seems to suggest otherwise and wanted to add that I think I'm rather lucky that my rifle does like this kind of ammo and that I only shot about 200 rounds of Wolf with it (all in one session). Barnaul in my opinion is much better and does indeed perform very well in my own and my friends' AR and Sig rifles. I think the ammo I'm talking about is what in the USA is sold as "Silver Bear" (http://www.dkgtrading.com/bearammo/sbrifle.html) .
 
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My Bushmaster M-4gery LOVES wolf 55gr hollowpoints. Have shot thousands without a stoppage or hiccup. Shoots under 2" groups at 100 yards with just a range bag for a support.
 
SKY and W.E.G.: I took a two day carbine course last September and fired about 1,400 rounds, including many courses of fire where we fired up to 180 rounds about as fast as I could pull the trigger and change mags. Not one single issue with the ammo in my 14.5" Bushmaster. Not one. Zero.

That said, a buddy's Olympic AR just couldn't digest the stuff. It just wouldn't chamber correctly. So before you trash the ammo, let's just agree that steel case ammo must be compatible with the chamber dimensions of a given manufacturer.
 
I am running 6 different AR'S, the complete AR's are a Bushmaster, Colt, Stag. The other 3 are LMT upper, a Colt upper and a Rock River upper. I have had all of them at some point hot to touch. They all have run on WOLF 55 and 62's, Brown Bear and Silver Bear. I have never had an issue with any ammo related problems with my collection. I have had other problems that were mag related or gas ring issue, but I have been fortunate to have solid gear putting up good groups at a variety of distances.
I also have a Kel-Tec SU16 and a SAIGA in 223/5.56 that also likes WOLFand the above mentioned ammo brands.
I also am anal about keeping my weapons clean and spend alot of time cleaning and lubricating after EVERY range trip, OK, I'm over the top, but all my guns are clean.
I also shoot LC, PMC and Q3131 amongst other brass ammo.
Some guns are like some cars, they don't like regular, they need hi test to run smooth.
Happy Shooting All.
 
Why pay for something you have to throw away when you can reuse brass over and over and over again is why I don't buy it. I would shoot it if you gave it to me but as long as I'm reloading there's no point in it for me.
 
wolf is the dirtiest ammo. unless its an AK or a beater rifle i wouldn't run the stuff. I dont care how meny people talk about how often they run it in their AR's with out a "hiccup" lol its nasty dirty filthy ammo.
 
I am running 6 different AR'S, the complete AR's are a Bushmaster, Colt, Stag. The other 3 are LMT upper, a Colt upper and a Rock River upper.

your gonna buy nice gear and then run filthy wolf ammo through them? doesn't make sense to me. if you got 6 and you wanna designate one to be the blaster/beater rifle to have fun with sure but abuse all 6 like that? your guns do what you want.
 
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Why pay for something you have to throw away when you can reuse brass over and over and over again is why I don't buy it.
You have to work pretty hard to load for the same price as Wolf or the Barnaul brands. I load most of mine, but that is primarily for accuracy, I might be wrong but I doubt that I save a dime (even taking the re-use of brass into consideration).

:)
 
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