RCBS Pro 2000

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mikemyers

mikemyers

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A rather simple question.

I've pretty much made up my mind to buy an RCBS Pro 2000.

Forgetting the price, is there any reason to pick the manual index model instead of the automatic model?

Personal information:
  • I am not all that concerned with speed, and either of these will be much faster than my single-station RCBS Big Max.
  • I prefer simplicity over complexity, and that alone seems to be a good reason for me to choose the manual index model.
  • I suspect that if I load mostly handgun ammo, the more smoothly (slowly?) I index the press, the less chance of power spills?
  • I suspect that clean-up on the manual model is faster/easier than on the auto-index version.
  • As noted above, the price is not a factor. $60 more for the automatic version is neither a reason to buy one or the other.
  • I don't want a reloading press where I am constantly looking at what I consider to be a "pipe bomb", meaning I've crossed the Dillon and the newer RCBS off my list of possible choices.
  • I will never need an automated bullet feeder, or anything feeder. I don't use all that much ammunition, which is a good reason maybe to continue to use my Single Station press.

I'm not sure how "typical" the above information is; I suspect most people will just want to get the fully-automated version. For me, I'm far more concerned with safety, and accuracy.
 
mikemyers said:
I suspect most people will just want to get the fully-automated version. For me, I'm far more concerned with safety, and accuracy.
Click to expand...
I’m admittedly biased because I have the auto advance model. That said, neither model is more or less safe or accurate than the other, if used as intended. With either one, each stroke of the operating handle does 5 separate operations (6 if you count decapping as separate from sizing, or 7 if you also count priming). Both models can perform the same simultaneous operations in the same sequence.

As for powder spillage/splashing with handgun brass, RCBS will give you a replacement spring for the detent that partially solves the problem and the operating handle can be operated as slowly as you want, to ease the shell plate into the next indexed position if you find that necessary. I personally see no advantage to the manually advanced model, except a few dollars cheaper. ymmv

Edit: I also see no practical difference in advancing the shell plate manually with the star wheel attachment or automatically by lifting the press operating handle. They both require an intentional, manual movement on your part, but the auto advance requires you to do one less thing with your left hand.
 
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Historically, I have been in the the "auto index" school. It is just one less thing to worry about. (When I bought my Pro2000, I got the auto index version).

I recently purchased a Dillon BL550 for loading a couple specific cartridges. I am finding the manual index is not too much a handicap when loading without case and bullet feeders.

But note, I do not size on a progressive press at the same time that I load. Almost all of my handgun cases are sized on a Hornady L-N-L press and rifle is sized on a single station press.
By doing so, it takes some of the workload off when loading and makes the loading process go more smoothly for me.
 
Manual for me

I reload cast lead bullets in pistol and jacketed .223 on my manual Pro 2000.
I use a lockout die when loading for pistol.
Can't saw I ever needed a auto index unit.
 
I have both auto and manual indexing presses, if you can walk and chew gum manual indexing isn't a problem, that said I prefer auto index.
 
2011redrider said:
If you end up going with the manual index version, bullets.com still has some in their closeout section. 416.00 and a bunch of shell plates for 24 ea.
Click to expand...


Thanks; you just saved me quite a bit of money. Bullets.com is getting rid of all their RCBS gear, and the cost is a good bit under what I was about to pay Midway USA.

I had a long talk with RCBS. Yes, the manual-index and auto-index are very similar, and either would work for me, but the technician also told me that an advantage of the manual is that if you want to remove a shell for any reason, check it, and then re-insert it into the press, this is easier to do with the manual press. Also, RCBS said the Pro2000 were changed a while ago to the newer spring. If mine doesn't have it, they'll send me one.

I ordered the manual index press, and two shell plates. I won't get to assemble and use it until February, but I feel good about finally having made a selection. I've (re)learned a lot about reloading thanks to you guys, and a good bit of practice with my Big Max Press, and have gotten to enjoy it once again. I've also gotten to help a relative of mine get his Dillon press going. l like the idea of this style of press, but in may ways I feel better about the RCBS. I like the cast iron construction. I like the manual index. I like the lack of a primer tube. I like the ability to use up to 5 dies on the die plate. I'll ignore the cost - that had nothing to do with my decision.

There are only three calibers I expect to reload, 38 Special, 45 ACP, and eventually 44 Magnum, but I'll do the 44 loads on the Big Max.



I guess my next decision will be what kind of Dies to buy, RCBS or ???


thanks for all the help!!
 
Enjoy your new press.

Did you happen to ask the fellow at RCBS how long they were going to support the pro 2000, since they changed directions with the new pro chuckers?
 
Thanks, 'jmorris'. No, that was one of my questions, but I assume it's like with my Big Max; when they run out of parts, that might create an issue at some point well off in the future.

I'm not sure how the answer might have changed my mind though - I want nothing to do with primer tube feeders, and it comes down to continue to use my Big Max, or get the Pro2000. With the close-out sale, it seemed like a good time to buy it, even though I'm not going to get to use it for almost five months.

I suppose I should buy more index plates, while they are available at the sale price, and probably one or two more die plates. Anything else any of you would recommend I get?

..........it's way too early to ask, but what is the preferred method to empty the powder hopper between uses? With my stand-alone powder measure, I screw out the load adjustment rod as far as seems reasonable, then operate the handle until all the powder has dropped out. How is this done on the Pro2000 ?
 
Buying shell plates that you need is probably a good idea.

As far as die plates, I do not leave mine populated with dies. They are not convienient to store that way and I find it takes no time to thread the die in place if it has a locked ring on it. It can get expensive buying die plates if you plan to load a number of cartridges.

I have two die plates for my Pro 2000 and one is still in its original package.

But what ever floats your boat.
 
Absolutely do not use the Manuel index without a lockout die. It is easy to forget where your at and pull the handle twice and get a double charge. I speak from experience did it on a 45 acp and screwed up my pistol. I'm sure some will tell me how careless I was and dumb and whatever all I can saw is when you least expect it Murphy will jump up and bite you in the butt[emoji3]
 
'cfullgraf' - I was thinking that earlier today, that I'd probably prefer to store my dies in the original plastic case they come in. I guess there's no need for the extra die plate, as I'm not going to be reloading all that much anyway.

'mooosie' - Good advice. There's going to be an empty station, and no reason not to get one of those lockout dies.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/536792/rcbs-lock-out-die

536792.jpg
 
Hmmm...

I just watched this video on how the Pro2000 works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCOjenjFKmI


This fellow is using a 4-die set, and with the powder station, all die locations are in use - no room for a "lockout die".


I think I'm getting something like this 3-die set from Midway:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/247879/rcbs-carbide-3-die-set-with-taper-crimp-45-acp-45-gap


Bottom line - all is fine, as long as I use a 3-die set. But why do people, such as the person who made the video, prefer a 4-die set? Is there some advantage to crimping in a separate station after the bullet is pressed in at the previous station?
 
I bought mine now 15 years ago and it was manual. Automatic only came along maybe 8 years ago?

Today, Automatic. Easy to use, simple to adjust.

Manual is fine, and gives you more exercise since it uses both hands more.

Mine is at around 350,000 rounds loaded and I will soon be cranking up again on it. I have been shooting more lately so now is the time work it again.
 
Folks that use a powder cop die or lock out die generally drop the powder in station two of their progressive press. The powder drop system flares the case mouth at the same time the powder is delivered.

Then station three is the powder check die, station four is the seat die and station five is the crimp.

This is one reason why Dillon hand gun die sets do not have a mouth expander die. Their powder delivery system is designed to flare the case mouth.

With the Pro2000, you could seat and crimp in station five. Virtually all conventional die sets have a crimp ring machined into the seat die. A mouth expander die is installed in station two, the powder measure is installed in station three and the powder check die in station four.

Another option is to install the powder measure in station two on the die plate and get the mouth expander drop tubes for the case activated system. The powder check system is in station 3, the fixed station, the seat die in station 4 and the crimp die in station 5.

When I first got my Hornady L-N-L, I started buying powder drop dies for each cartridge that I loaded. It started to get expensive. I then machined custom drop tubes so that I did not have to change the drop die, just the drop tube.

Most recently, i discovered that resetting the drop die for another cartridge is easy peasy. Once the drop die linkage is adjusted for the powder measure attachment points, it does not change. All that has to be done is screw the drop die higher or lower in the press to account for the different cartridge length. (Note, there may be a finite range of cases that this works with. Very long or very short cases may require other adjustments)

Before filling the powder measure, I adjust the measure by putting an empty case in the powder charge station. I raise the case, activating the empty powder measure. I turn the powder measure raising or lowering it until I have achieved the full stroke on the powder measure.

The powder measure does not have to stroke to full stop, a little slop is ok. I shoot for about 1/8" or so which then allows for variable case lengths without jamming up the powder measure.

Once set, I lock the jam nut down to the press, die plate or L-N-L bushing. (note, this is a good use for the Lee o-ring lock ring although I like the Dillon nuts and the Dillon wrench.).

Then, I can remove the powder measure from the press for filling, leaving the drop die in position. Just unscrew the linkage screw, remove the spring, and lift the measure out.

I fill and adjust the powder measure off the press in a bench stand. Then verify the setting once the measure is returned to the press.

Hope this makes sense and helps.
 
I use the following setup; for Pistol (45ACP), Station 1 depriming and sizing die (carbide set). Station 2 blank, station 3 is power drop/mouth flare. Station 4 Boolit seating, (I shoot cast boolits), and Station 5 for crimp die, (just enough to bring the case mouth back 'straight' for proper mouth sizing.)
For Rifle (223/556) Station 1 deprime and size, Station 2 neck size and flare mouth, Station 3 powder, Station 4 powder check die, and Station 5 seat and taper crimp to proper mouth size (not really a crimp, but just to take the flare out). This is the set up I also use for 300 Savage and 30-06 Remington, just with the appropriate die sizes.
My auto-index has served me well for the last 2 1/2 years. I have die plates set-up for each caliber. Prior to my Pro 2000, I used a Lee Classic Cast Turret press and did fine with it but wanted less handle pulls per loaded round. I am very well satisfied with the Pro 2000.
 
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Thanks for all the information - answered several questions for me.

'cfullgraf' -- are there any disadvantages of doing what you described?
"Folks that use a powder cop die or lock out die generally drop the powder in station two of their progressive press. The powder drop system flares the case mouth at the same time the powder is delivered. "

Presumably:
  • station #1 - resize/deprime
  • station #2 - powder and flare
  • station #3 - lockout die
  • station #4 - seat bullet
  • station #5 - crimp

One less thing to worry about.

My Pro2000 will be delivered this coming Tuesday. I won't have time to set it up, but it will be nice to see one in person! Better than YouTube viewing.
 
mikemyers, as described, the powder lock out die will be in station 3, the press frame station on the Pro2000. You would probably only have one of these dies anyway due to their cost so no big deal.

You could buy powder drop dies and adjust them in each die plate for the cartridge being loaded. Or adjust the die when changing cartridges. Adjusting the powder drop die is quick and easy once the relationship between the powder measure and powder drop die is established.

If you do not store the die plates populated with dies, then it does not matter.
 
'cfullgraf' -- I'm not sure what you mean by the "press frame station", but "station #3" sounds logical.

People have suggested that it's so easy to remove and install dies, there's no need for multiple die plates.

My plan is to start with either 45 ACP or 38 Special, and not change anything until I am fully comfortable with the new press. I'll still have my RCBS Big Max which I can use for anything else for a while.

.....time to go look up "powder drop dies". Need to find out if this is something that gets adjusted for different bullets, or if you buy one for each caliber....
 
mikemyers said:
'cfullgraf' -- I'm not sure what you mean by the "press frame station", but "station #3" sounds logical.
Click to expand...

Probably not the best description, but station three on the Pro2000 is drilled and tapped in the press frame instead of the die plate.
 
So, anything attached at station #3 remeins in place as someone changes the die plate? That is how/why the powder drop components remain in place if the die plate is removed?

If so, one more thing I knew nothing about...
 
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