Would you feel safe with an m1 garand in grizzly country?

[KodiakBeer]

Again, ballistics are baloney. A bear has less than a 16th of an inch of bone between the sinus cavity and brain. You just have to make the shot. If you can hit a surprise softball bounced at you at 40 mph with a handgun, then you are Jerry Miculek. The rest of us (who are not Jerry Miculek) are better served with a shotgun.

When you choose a shotgun, your best choice of ammo is one that hits point of aim. If you don't have adjustable sights, you are wasting your time choosing a slug based on ballistics. Choose what hits under that gold bead, not on the ballistics of the projectile.

 

[CraigC]

And so your lone example of what was still too light a bullet is supposed to negate 150yrs of wisdom??? It is difficult enough to make a brain shot on an undisturbed critter but somehow you think that hitting that little brain inside a head bobbing up and down as it moves at 40mph is your best option? Not hardly. This is the difference between killing and stopping. You stop the critter by breaking down its support structure. Breaking a shoulder is never a bad thing nor is it a guaranteed stop but if you miss the brain your new friend still has full mobility.

Again, ballistics are baloney.

So should one's choice be based on 150yrs of wisdom gained from those who have been there and done that, those who have been there and done that recently with modern projectiles or internet lore from anonymous strangers, most of whom have zero credibility, zero accountability and are only repeating what they've heard??? I know which I would pick.

PS, living in Alaska does not make one an expert on killing bears. Killing bears makes one an expert on killing bears and kililng bears with .416's does not make one an expert on doing so with anything but .416's. I don't count myself as an expert on anything but I do have some knowledge of big bores and a fairly well developed noodle between my ears. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out. There are so many holes and contradictions in this slug nonsense I'm surprised that sane people still believe this crap.

If you can hit a surprise softball bounced at you at 40 mph with a handgun, then you are Jerry Miculek.

Again, no one has said that handguns are the best tool for the job. However, it is a proven fact that they are capable if the shooter is and NOTHING fits in a holster on the belt and stays with you 100% of the time better than a handgun. If you can't get that sixgun clear of your holster quicker than YOU can unsling that shotgun across your back, the problem is YOU, not your choice of hardware.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

CraigC, you just can't seem to get it. You could hit a charging Brownie in the shoulder with a 500 Nitro Express and not stop the damn thing in the 20 yards or closer that you have LEGAL defensive shooting distance. Short of a CNS shot you are NOT stopping a full on charge PERIOD. Hence the need for a projectile as large as possible to hit the target. Now do we need to simplify this further for you or do you get it now? It has nothing to do with ballistics, it has to do with sheer bullet diameter to hit a very hard target!

Like Kodiak said, it you are not extremely proficient with a handgun it is not the best thing to use. Since I literally grew up with one in my hand I guess I am a bit better with them than most ( But I aint no damn Jerry either Kodiak! That feller is unreal!)

There are 2 spots you can aim for on a charging Bruin to stop him. Of course the brain shot which, as stated, is a difficult shot especially under pressure and the other is to try to sidestep and get a bit of angle going for where the neck and shoulder meets. That has actually put a lot of them down. And, believe it or not, is a higher percentage shot than the brain for obvious reasons. Other than those 2 shots, it will get to you. Now you may get lucky and only get hit and bit a couple of times before it dies on top of you if you got a chest shot, but one good swipe or one good bite to the head or neck and you will be found dead under that dead bear. It's sheer will of a very powerful animal that we are talking about Craig. There is nothing magical about them. Just sheer power and will. They look easy to kill and when hunting them at a bit of a distance they generally are. But hunting a Brownie and defending yourself against a charging Bruin while adhering to the law are 2 totally different worlds.

 

[SwissArmyDad]

wow. Always amazes me how quickly things get argumentative in threads such as these.

The OP's question seems like it's been asked and answered:

Garand: He could do worse, though it might get mucked up, and it'll be heavy.
Handgun: pick a bigger one than the 1911 he has i.e. 44 mag or 454 casull
Shotgun: good bear medicine for reletively little $$
Marlin Levergun: .30-30/.45-70 or bigger = good bear medicine
bolt-action: .300 win mag or bigger = good bear medicine

And that's about it, right? Why waste time e-arguing? I've never understood why people devote so much time to that pursuit.

 

[CraigC]

What you don't seem to "get", is that outside internet bantering about bears, NOBODY is gonna recommend a brainshot on a charging critter. The shoulder is the tried and true best option. But then again, what do I know, I trust folks like John Taylor, Frederick Courteney Selous, W.D.M Bell, John Linebaugh, Larry Kelly, J.D. Jones, Phil Shoemaker and Ross Seyfried more than anonymous internet characters from Chicago.

 

[Ranger30-06]

Guys guys guys! C'mon now play nice before the mods close the thread. You can have an argument without getting nasty or personal!

 

[KodiakBeer]

Again, no one has said that handguns are the best tool for the job. However, it is a proven fact that they are capable if the shooter is

I don't know any shooters who are. Real brown bear attacks (as opposed to those who stupidly shoot bears that growl at them) are sudden, silent rushes from close range. If you are in dense cover (where these attacks generally happen) your shotgun (or Marlin) is in your hands. I've been in that situation twice. Once I got mauled in absolutely horrific circumstances. The other time I shot the bear in the face and stopped it right there, 5 yards from where I was standing. I'm batting 50%...

On at least a dozen other occasions I've faced down brown bears going through the typical "threat display". This situation is what most tourists think is an attack, but is really just (as described) a display. When you have that warning, the bear has no intention of attacking. It's like a rattlesnake, just warning you off from its day-bed, a kill, cubs, whatever. If you get a warning, you're in no real danger. Just heed the warning and back away.

I've been there and done that. When they come for you, they'll creep in or just spring from their bed with no growls, no warning, just 600 to 1000 pounds of bear bounding at you at 40 mph from less than 20 yards. If your shot (and you have about 1 second to make that shot) goes through their nose or mouth, you'll stop it. A body shot, or a miss, might turn them or it might just make them angrier and turn a swatting into a killing.

The bear I killed was with a Marlin Guide Gun with Wild West ghost ring sights. Everything was in slow motion, but that fire-dot front sight seemed to waver around forever before that red dot was on the face. I slapped the trigger and the bear crashed. It was just a small bear - a 3 year old that weighed maybe 300 pounds. I got lucky.

I was already gun-shy after the mauling, and the second episode made me decide a shotgun was a better answer. For me, I've been shotgunning since I was 12 so it's instinctive to throw that gold bead on a rabbit or ptarmigan - or a bears face. I experimented with different slugs, snap shooting targets at ten yards or so. I found that with my shotgun, the old foster slugs shot to point of aim, and the various sabot slugs didn't. Your mileage, with your shotgun, may vary. But, they must hit point of aim. If you have a shotgun with adjustable sights, then you have some latitude.

If you can turn, draw, and hit a softball with a handgun skipped from 20 yards, then fine. I can't do that, and I don't know anyone who can. A shotgun is designed for snap shooting. In my opinion (and I've been there), it's the best choice for most people. Jerry Miculek, excepted.

 

[KodiakBeer]

What you don't seem to "get", is that outside internet bantering about bears, NOBODY is gonna recommend a brainshot on a charging critter. The shoulder is the tried and true best option. But then again, what do I know, I trust folks like John Taylor, Frederick Courteney Selous, W.D.M Bell, John Linebaugh, Larry Kelly, J.D. Jones, Phil Shoemaker and Ross Seyfried more than anonymous internet characters from Chicago.

Most of those people have never seen a grizzly outside a zoo, and I suspect you haven't either.

Here is your sight picture. You want to figure out where the shoulder is, or just blast it in the face?

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

On at least a dozen other occasions I've faced down brown bears going through the typical "threat display". This situation is what most tourists think is an attack, but is really just (as described) a display. When you have that warning, the bear has no intention of attacking.

Generally but not always fact there Kodiak. The 2 times I've had to fire, the female, no warning whatsoever and was on a balls to the wall rush because she and I were close when she saw me. The male, on the other hand, actually had bluffed a couple of times and I was in no position to retreat. He had come up where I had went into the creek to fish and the bank on the other side was too steep and muddy to back out. His third was no bluff. Now granted being over 6' and over 250 I'm no small fella but I do NOT intend to dance with a 750+ pound ball of pissed off. When I fired on BOTH they were within 20 yards and committed. MOST the time you are correct when you say if they bluff at you it's more like saying "excuse me but you may want to leave this area" but not always.

 

[AK_Maine_iac]

I look at it this way. Would you rather hit a brick wall in a fast sports car (44mag) or with a TANK the 12 ga. slug The fast car will do some damage to the wall but may kill you. The tank will slowly push it's way through and the odds are in your favor for not getting hurt.

 

[CraigC]

Twice. I have black bears all over my property. Loud talking saved me once. Firecrackers did it the other time

This qualifies one to be an expert on killing bears???

I sincerely believe that someone who lives on Kodiak Island and has been mauled by a bear and killed another charging bear is an expert.

Getting mauled by one bear and killing another makes one an expert on killing bears???
Meanwhile, this list of names I mentioned are all arbitrarily dismissed in deference to the "expert" opinions of the above???

Most of those people have never seen a grizzly outside a zoo, and I suspect you haven't either.

I reckon that should be very indicative of those involved in this discussion. Dude scares off two black bears, another dude kills one and gets mauled by another and they have the balls to dismiss the works of Seyfried? Larry Kelly took the African Big Five with the .44Mag. Ross Seyfried took a custom five-shot .45Colt sixgun to Africa and took dangerous game with it. Proving beyond a shadow of a doubt the effectiveness of these guns. Taylor, Bell and Selous killed more big nasty critters than could be counted. Phil Shoemaker hunts grizzlies for a living and would rather have a .30-06 than a shotgun and a .458WM than either. But no, Mr. Firecracker, Mr. Beer and Mr. Chicago know better. Okay.

 

[1KPerDay]

Good grief.

 

[taliv]

good grief is right