Would you feel safe with an m1 garand in grizzly country?
- Thread starter FlyinBryan
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mortablunt
Member
Places I don't feel safe with an M1 Garand: Nazi rallies
Places I feel safe with an M1 Garand: Everywhere else
The 30-06 is a powerful cartridge that definitely will stop a bear with the correct shot placement. People have managed to pull off some incredibly improbable kills on large game using small caliber rounds. Those are rarities only attempted with intense planning and great skill. I approve of the Garand for anti Bravo-Echo-Alpha-Romeo duty.
Places I feel safe with an M1 Garand: Everywhere else
The 30-06 is a powerful cartridge that definitely will stop a bear with the correct shot placement. People have managed to pull off some incredibly improbable kills on large game using small caliber rounds. Those are rarities only attempted with intense planning and great skill. I approve of the Garand for anti Bravo-Echo-Alpha-Romeo duty.
1KPerDay
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FlyinBryan
Member
lol, that was great!
Kevin Rohrer
Member
1. Leave the .45ACP at home.
2. Take the Garand w/ a heavy (180gr) expanding bullet loaded to military specs (2550-2750fps) using the proper powder (4895, BLC-2, or 4064).
3. And have several clips of ammo w/ you. Five wouldn't be too many.
2. Take the Garand w/ a heavy (180gr) expanding bullet loaded to military specs (2550-2750fps) using the proper powder (4895, BLC-2, or 4064).
3. And have several clips of ammo w/ you. Five wouldn't be too many.
He is going fishing, not storming the beaches of Normandy.
Chances are slim he will need anything but his fishing tackle. While there are worse choices, a 10 lb. battle rifle is quite likely to be left in camp exactly when he finds he does need it.
A can of pepper spray can stay on your belt, as can a 44 mag revolver. A short barreled light weight pump can be slung over your shoulder and forgotten about. While a good 30-06 round will kill a big bear I have doubts about it stopping one before it gets to me. How reliable anything hot enough to be suitable on a bear will be in a Garand is also a question mark for me. While the '06 round will kill a bear, slugs are a better stopper.
I know you don't have either of those choices now,but 870 pumps can be picked up used for under $200. You do have friends? Borrow one from a friend for the trip if money is too tight. I've never made it to Alaska, but lots of my camping gear has been there when I loaned it out to a college kid I know who got a once in a lifetime chance and no money to spare for equipment.
Chances are slim he will need anything but his fishing tackle. While there are worse choices, a 10 lb. battle rifle is quite likely to be left in camp exactly when he finds he does need it.
A can of pepper spray can stay on your belt, as can a 44 mag revolver. A short barreled light weight pump can be slung over your shoulder and forgotten about. While a good 30-06 round will kill a big bear I have doubts about it stopping one before it gets to me. How reliable anything hot enough to be suitable on a bear will be in a Garand is also a question mark for me. While the '06 round will kill a bear, slugs are a better stopper.
I know you don't have either of those choices now,but 870 pumps can be picked up used for under $200. You do have friends? Borrow one from a friend for the trip if money is too tight. I've never made it to Alaska, but lots of my camping gear has been there when I loaned it out to a college kid I know who got a once in a lifetime chance and no money to spare for equipment.
Cosmoline
Member
Good idea. Most people have loaners or cabin guns. Or if you have others packing let them do the heavy lifting and just carry some spray.
Another thing--are you OK with throwing your Garand into a river and fishing it out a while later or maybe losing it for good? Fishing here is not like fishing in a bass boat on a calm reservoir. Nothing against that kind of fishing--I love it. But it's the difference between a lazy day on a lazy river and a day scrambling through devil's club over incredibly slick rocks and into water so cold it turns your skin bright red in seconds. There are rarely trails and rarely anything resembling a beach.
Bears are not particularly hardy creatures, they are at the top of the food chain and I believe they haven't evolved to take uber-punishment and keep ticking. A ungulate (deer, elk , etc,) will go 100 yards with literally an exploded heart, though I have no experience actually killin' bars I've heard they go down quick.
More importantly- a .30-06 is plenty of medicine for any living creature- Inuits kill whales with them- I assume after passing through an inch or two of water in most cases.
At close range it is plenty of gun for anything on earth.
More importantly- a .30-06 is plenty of medicine for any living creature- Inuits kill whales with them- I assume after passing through an inch or two of water in most cases.
At close range it is plenty of gun for anything on earth.
DM~
Member
You've never seen the tree's in Alaska where you generally hunt big bears have you?? Good luck with that tree climbing idea!! lol
Anyway, to the OP, i hunted big bears for many years, in numerous places in Alaska. For YOUR situation, i'd also go with a good quality short bbled shotgun with slugs!
I wouldn't even consider the 45, and i wouldn't want to pack your 06 either!
DM
DM~
Member
Brown bears are not particularly hardy creatures???? YIKES!! You don't have to tell me that you don't have any experience with them!!!
I can also see you haven't been around the natives when they are hunting either!!
DM
I know nothing of bears, but I am reading Rodriguez lately saying the new 165 grain solid (Barnes TSX type) bullets are superior to the old heavy bullets (200 gr). It turns out they actually penetrate farther than the slow for caliber bullets. If you could load a 165 gr in the Garand it would be better than 150 gr surplus.
Jonny V
Member
If you're dead set on a rifle for bear defense, get a Marlin 1895 SBL or GBL. I've gotta say, however, the recoil of full on 45/70 bear loads is not for the faint of heart......Before he gets started, Hizzie can do a lot better with his 4-5-8, but we can't all have 458's. The 45/70 is THE poor man's 4-5-8.
One other thing, you wouldn't want a scope on a defensive weapon. Go for a set of Skinner sights, ghost ring rear, and brass blade front. Very fast on target....
One other thing, you wouldn't want a scope on a defensive weapon. Go for a set of Skinner sights, ghost ring rear, and brass blade front. Very fast on target....
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FlyinBryan
Member
if this gets a vote of confidence from those experienced in said territories, im ordering it.
http://www.impactguns.com/taurus-444-ultralite-44-mag-4in-444multi-725327351252.aspx
(and leaving the old m1 garand in the safe) i have no doubt i could defend myself with the m1, but like has been mentioned, i would need to have it on me. also cosmoline made me shuuder talking about throwing my beloved rifle in the river
http://www.impactguns.com/taurus-444-ultralite-44-mag-4in-444multi-725327351252.aspx
(and leaving the old m1 garand in the safe) i have no doubt i could defend myself with the m1, but like has been mentioned, i would need to have it on me. also cosmoline made me shuuder talking about throwing my beloved rifle in the river
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Jonny V
Member
I shot a rental Taurus 44 mag at the range once, it fell apart in my hand. Literally, the whole cylinder and crane just flopped out. Not a good feeling at all. Don't waste your hard earned money on a Taurus, and certainly don't trust your life to one. How many police departments you see carrying Tauruses? None, you know why? There's a reason.......
bhk
Member
I have a Garand and would not want to lug it around while fishing. A light slung 12 gauge pump seems much better to me.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Yes. An M1 ought to be 'enough". I would probably use armor piercing ammo, since it is easily obtainable, and will guarantee deep pentration. In WWII, the Japanese scorned the use of AP ammo in the Garand, as our guys could shoot through the soft tropical trees that the were used for cover in the jungles. Eight WELL PLACED rounds should neutralize a bear.
PreMod70
Member
Never had to fight over a fishing hole but a M-1 with a full clip would be as comfortable as I could get if forced to defend myself from a bear.
AK_Maine_iac
Member
Bears are not particularly hardy creatures, they are at the top of the food chain and I believe they haven't evolved to take uber-punishment and keep ticking. A ungulate (deer, elk , etc,) will go 100 yards with literally an exploded heart, though I have no experience actually killin' bars I've heard they go down quick.
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He may go down fast. On top of you chewing, biting ,crunching, and tossing you around like a rag doll. All with a pound of lead in his chest. He may be dead but his brain thinks NOT SO 
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He may go down fast. On top of you chewing, biting ,crunching, and tossing you around like a rag doll. All with a pound of lead in his chest. He may be dead but his brain thinks NOT SO Detachment Charlie
Member
Been to Alaska (if you haven't been there, go. Only then will you understand the word "Awesome.")
My Garand is my favorite rifle and truly believe that if in North America, if you can't kill it with a 30.06, you shouldn't have been messing around in there anyway. Even with an adjustable gas plug tuned to your choice of heavy, solid slugs, I'd leave it in the safe. Get a good .12 ga. with Brenneke slugs. It's lighter than the M1, hits harder, carries easier, and packs enough power to stop (you hope) one of these brown fur, stinky, huge, angry and focused on your death uber predators. Dude, I've seen them up close in Alaska, and you realize that you are nothing but lunch. These are magnificent beasts, watch them. You'll realize you position in the food chain.
Just a traveler's observation.
My Garand is my favorite rifle and truly believe that if in North America, if you can't kill it with a 30.06, you shouldn't have been messing around in there anyway. Even with an adjustable gas plug tuned to your choice of heavy, solid slugs, I'd leave it in the safe. Get a good .12 ga. with Brenneke slugs. It's lighter than the M1, hits harder, carries easier, and packs enough power to stop (you hope) one of these brown fur, stinky, huge, angry and focused on your death uber predators. Dude, I've seen them up close in Alaska, and you realize that you are nothing but lunch. These are magnificent beasts, watch them. You'll realize you position in the food chain.
Just a traveler's observation.
torchroadster
Member
I've made four wilderness fishing trips to Alaska, the last fishing literally yards from grizzly bears - who were fishing too. I've spoken extensively with other fishermen and parks and wildlife people about fishing in bear country. I've had numerous bear encounters.
As many have said a 12 gauge loaded with slugs is the best choice for stopping a grizzly. However it is difficult if not impossible to wade fish in a fast moving Alaskan river with a shotgun on your shoulder. I tried it - I know. You will end up laying your shotgun on the bank where it is of no use to you, except hiking to and from your fishing spot.
A handgun is the only practical choice for bear defense while wade/shoreline fishing. The Ruger Super Red Hawk .454 Casull is probably the optimum choice. You want a chest holster to keep it high and out of the water.
A lot depends on what type of fishing you are doing. Will you be in a boat? Guided or unguided? River? Lake? Saltwater? Are you tent camping? Cabin? RV? For almost anything except wilderness hiking or wade/shoreline fishing you can get by with a shotgun and slugs. Also what part of Alaska will you be in? The southern Alaska grizzlies are the fishing bears, northern not so much.
One other observation from personal experience, the juvenile bears are more curious and bothersome than the adults. The adults seem to keep their distance but the juveniles (old enough to not be with their mothers, but not yet full grown) are the ones that gave me the most concern. Of course watch very closely for the mother with cubs and stay well away if you recognize and come across them.
Make a lot of noise while hiking. Talk loud, sing, whatever. A common chant in the Alaskan wilderness is "Hey Bear". Usually they will avoid you if they know you're there. Your perspective definitely changes when you realize you are no longer at the top of the food chain.
Bear spray is convenient and relatively inexpensive. If you're working with an outfitter they will usually loan you some. You can't take it on a commercial airplane even in checked luggage. Keep it with you/nearby 24/7 unless you're in a hard sided enclosure, e.g. cabin or RV.
Have a great trip - Alaska is awesome beyond description.
As many have said a 12 gauge loaded with slugs is the best choice for stopping a grizzly. However it is difficult if not impossible to wade fish in a fast moving Alaskan river with a shotgun on your shoulder. I tried it - I know. You will end up laying your shotgun on the bank where it is of no use to you, except hiking to and from your fishing spot.
A handgun is the only practical choice for bear defense while wade/shoreline fishing. The Ruger Super Red Hawk .454 Casull is probably the optimum choice. You want a chest holster to keep it high and out of the water.
A lot depends on what type of fishing you are doing. Will you be in a boat? Guided or unguided? River? Lake? Saltwater? Are you tent camping? Cabin? RV? For almost anything except wilderness hiking or wade/shoreline fishing you can get by with a shotgun and slugs. Also what part of Alaska will you be in? The southern Alaska grizzlies are the fishing bears, northern not so much.
One other observation from personal experience, the juvenile bears are more curious and bothersome than the adults. The adults seem to keep their distance but the juveniles (old enough to not be with their mothers, but not yet full grown) are the ones that gave me the most concern. Of course watch very closely for the mother with cubs and stay well away if you recognize and come across them.
Make a lot of noise while hiking. Talk loud, sing, whatever. A common chant in the Alaskan wilderness is "Hey Bear". Usually they will avoid you if they know you're there. Your perspective definitely changes when you realize you are no longer at the top of the food chain.
Bear spray is convenient and relatively inexpensive. If you're working with an outfitter they will usually loan you some. You can't take it on a commercial airplane even in checked luggage. Keep it with you/nearby 24/7 unless you're in a hard sided enclosure, e.g. cabin or RV.
Have a great trip - Alaska is awesome beyond description.
Sav .250
Member
Odd choice in a weapon but the cal is great. J s/n.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
No, it's the most affordable and most accessible. FAR from the best. I'll take a properly loaded .44 any day of the week over a slug.
I can believe that. The old Remington 220gr is not as great a penetrator as some folks seem to believe.
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