XCR, ACR, SCAR over AR15 build? why?

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jason41987

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hey everyone, ive been working out specs for an AR15 build, and well, i priced everything out for the AR15 rifle the way i want it... 16" arperformance barrel in 6.8, the ARP bolt, a cmmg piston kit (too lazy to clean internals as often), aero performance COP monolithic upper, ranier lower, UBR stock, ergo grip, also included the price of muzzle device, AR15 lower parts kit, and misc parts...total came out to about $1,600-$1,700 depending

so.. ive seen robinson XCR-L rifles available at $1,600 and ACRs around $1600-$1800, both new.. so for the $1600-$1800 price range it seems both can be had... the lowest ive found the SCAR is $2,300 so its a considerable increase... also, which hasnt been listed in the title because it hasnt come out yet is the beretta ARX160 rumored to be priced around $1,600

im cautious about the robinson XCR due to the fate of the M96 and how they seemed to have left so many customers with a rifle they cant get anything for anymore, and they gave up on it fairly quick, and i think the scar is a bit overpriced for what it can do

so.. would there be any reason to consider or buy any of these rifles over the AR15? which would you choose and why?
 
in my experience none of these rifles offers any advancement over the AR15 platform. I have no experience with the SCAR or XCR but the ACR, though it was a valiant effort on the part of bushmaster/cerberus, is a total flop. I understand a company wanting to make a rifle that is totally unique but in an effort to stay unique they placed all the controls in hard to find, hard to remember and hard to actuate locations. the design is in no way conducive to ambidextrous use and is more suited to a plinker and range toy than to a paramilitary design. the AR15 his highly conducive to ambidextrous use and some of the newer high end companies are 100% ambidextrous. my experience with a bushmaster ACR was utterly infuriating. the front sight was next to impossible to adjust, I ended up spending more time trying to figure out the controls than I did on the firing line, and at the end of a single box of ammo my buddy and I ended up trading it for an M16 just so we could shoot up the rest of our range ammo we had bought. we were both shooting 4 inch groups at 25 yards, a feat that was surpassed by every other rifle we rented from that range including those dreaded 7.62x39 chambered vz58s. I would never buy an ACR and would never trust my life to one. if you offered me an ACR or a 10/22 and told me I had to take it to front lines combat, I would pick the ruger. that's how little I trust the ACR platform.
 
if they were all the same $, i'd pick the ar15 over any of those rifles. so no, no reason to spend more.

however, i'd also stick with 556 instead of 6.8 and NOT add a piston. that will make it even cheaper AND more reliable.
 
Robinsom arms has the worst customer service I've ever encountered from any business. They lied to me for several months saying my rifle would ship in two weeks, and when I asked why it hadn't shipped yet or even been started on they just said, "you're not or only customer."

That on top of the owner never delivering what he promises and saying he won't provide anyone with service who publicly expresses displeasure with their poor service led me to sell it and never look back.

Stick with a custom ar.
 
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You left out the SIG 556 rifle... :)

I have the SCAR, had a SIG 556, and I have a Mini-14 (2012 model). I have shot two Colt AR-15's last year helping my cousin sight in new optics.

I have often wanted to give the XCR a try and I find myself hesitant. The latest look great and I think have been well thought out.

My cousin asked me about the SCAR and we had an in-depth discussion. He is U.S. Army and has ran many rounds down an AR-15. His experience with a quality setup is the AR-15 will run for several hundred rounds no problem, and if you have some oil, or just "pee in it" you can run it longer without a proper cleaning. I don't know about the urine thing. :)

I really like the Mini-14. I am actually surprised by how much I like it. I thought I would consider it a beater gun at best, but no, it is a fine firearm that runs clean, light, easy to handle, and the low sight height coupled with the 5.56 round makes a flat shooting wonder.

p.s. Maybe someday we will have the CZ 805 BREN available.
 
I have all three.

Multiple AR rifles (including SBR)
Bushmaster ACR with a custom shortened and fluted barrel.
FN SCAR 16S.

All are excellent rifles with intuitive controls and features.

AR Platform: All my AR's are DI rifles. I have no desire to go the route of a gas piston as mine are all Semi-Auto and the DI rifles have a distinct edge of being lighter and more accurate. I am exceptionally familar and comfortable withe the AR platform from years of shooting and military experience.

ACR: I have a basic fixed stock variant. Initial impression is a nose heavy beast, however my first range session was very positive. No malfunctions of any kind and it performed well on the 189 yard and 300 yard gongs. Despite the weight, it handled well and was pleasing to shoot. Plan on ditching the MBUS sights if you are not going to run an optic. They are fine for back-up use, but not all that good for primary use. I went with Troy sights on my rifle. The right side selector is irritating, but easily trimmed to a new profile. I also had ADCO shorten my 16" M4 profile barrel and flute it. It's now a 14.5" with a permanent 1.6" flash hider for 16.1" OAL and a fluted lightweight profile. This mod made ALL the difference for this rifle.

SCAR 16: Not a lot of trigger time on this one yet as I just got it after waiting over a year for the right one. Initial impressions are all positive. The sights are nice, but this rifle just begs for an optic.

All this being said, if I had to select one rifle in my safe to grab and get gone with, it would be a 16" Colt Lightweight A2 upper on a Telestock lower. Light, Reliable, fixed sights, and a rifle that I am extremely comfortable and confident with.


Don
 
Long time M-14 hold-out here. Scoffed the AR platform for years but then got into it, slowly at first. While the XCR, ACR and SCAR seem to address deficiencies here and there, I personally do not see where the advantage is substantial enough to compel additional expense with "non-standard" controls, or at least which most of us would be less accustom to.
 
I might have misread the OP, but this thread seems like apples and oranges. The OP stated that the planned build is chambered in 6.8; others are responding with solutions in 5.56. No? If that is so, I'd first ask the OP what other AR-type rifles does he/she already own? Or is this 6.8 build the first one?
If the first, I suspect that the 6.8 should be considered a non-starter. Too expensive to shoot, ammo is hard to find. If set on a .300-scale cartridge, I'd be looking at AR10's and SCAR H's (yes, the latter is quite pricey). For 5.56, I'd look at $1K priced AR's and use the balance for ammo.
JMHO,
B
 
I might have misread the OP, but this thread seems like apples and oranges. The OP stated that the planned build is chambered in 6.8; others are responding with solutions in 5.56. No?
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing anyone mentioning calibers here. most comparisons are between 5.56 offerings of the listed mkes and models but the differences between a 5.56 AR15 vs 5.56 ACR are going to be identical to the differences in a 6.8 AR15 vs 6.8 ACR.
 
This is what confused me (from the OP):
'arperformance barrel in 6.8'
B
 
well, not my first AR, but will be the only one in my collection, i used to work for myself, and as such didnt have insurance needed when i was hit with a medical problem requiring surgery, so i had to sell nearly all i owned, kept a nagant i wouldnt have gotten much for anyway, and a pump 12 gauge because its the one tool that can do everything...

anyway, i would be willing to go with one of the newer rifles if there was some advantage, and most offer 6.8mm chamberings now too, found the XCR in 6.8mm for example...

i like the 6.8, more so than the .223 and it does seem to be a rapidly growing cartrdge for good reason, offers better ballistics, more energy, and im an experienced reloader anyway

these new rifles i mention offer roughly the same features as the rifle i intended to build, similar style stock, short stroke piston system, monolithic uppers, and roughly the same price which is why i was curious if there was some reason one of these other rifles would be worth buying outright... and as far as familiar interfaces go, ive shot many other rifles besides the AR15, so i can comfortable adapt to a new interface, as long as its not a worse interface... im right handed and right eye dominant so couldnt care less about ambidextrous controls

so the AR15 as i described would seemingly offer similar features at about the same price... if i was looking at this build costing significantly less, or these newer rifles didnt also have the same features there wouldnt be a debate, but its the closest things to one another that end up being debated and compared
 
... ive heard quality control problems with the XCR which ive been told theyve taken care of, and i do like the massive 3-lug bolt.. but the way they handled customers of the M96 rifle, it seems they abandoned the rifle entirely, and with it, their customers and im not sure whats stopping them from deciding one day to completely abandon the XCR and its users so that makes me very, very cautious with this company

the ACR seemed to have a lot of popularity in the civilian market, and though its very unlikely the US military will adopt it, other countries have entertained the idea which means this one is more likely to stay around for a while than the XCR will.

but ultimately you can say the AR15 is so successful because its essentially an "open source" design at this point, which allows the aftermarket to go further with it

so... requirements for the rifle, no matter what it is...

6.8mm SPCII chambering, or able to be converted to it
monolithic upper receiver
a length adjustable stock with consistant cheek weld
and uses common, easy to find magazines
and preferably piston operated, i know its not more reliable, not more accurate, im just not wanting to clean the internals so often, and ill admit its an "im lazy" issue
 
im rather suprised about the rather uniform dislike for the newer rifles.. i guess people try comparing them too much to the AR15, and rightly so as its what theyre trying to compete with... just hard to compete with something already proven, all its kinks ironed out, and inexpensive i guess
 
Of the options you listed, I would go with one of the rifles that was actually purposefully designed as a gas piston rifle, over an after-market kit that shoe-horns it into a perfectly fine and reliable direct impingement design (the AR-15), turning it into something less than a perfectly fine and reliable design while adding unnecessary weight and non-standard parts.

But even better than any of those options would be just a plain AR-15 with the original direct impingement operation. In my opinion, the newer designs do not bring anything to the table sufficient to justify their increase in price. In these days, when you can put together a totally mil-spec rifle with all the chart-topping reliability and QC features for 6 or 700 bucks, I just don't see the point in spending over twice that to get something that just doesn't quite get as much gunk on the bolt carrier, with dubious improvement in reliability and spare parts that cost several times as much.

My opinion on this would be the same whether you are talking 5.56 or 6.8 SPC.
 
i made a post on the XCR forum to give them a chance to convince me... and i had a counter point to everything they said...

for every point they could make on the rifle it could be equally negated by features already present, or available in after market on the ar15... barrels dont change quickly when you still have to rezero the optics anyway, AR15 barrels change quick enough already...

i dont know, not even owners of these rifles could find something unique to brag about... so i dunno.. i give up, i gave these designs there chances, and like their chances with the military they've failed

what little differences there are could immediately be erased with an M16A5/M4A2 upgrade anyway
 
i might stick with DI afterall, atleast at first.. no reason to go for it right away if i do... umm.. checked in the XCR though and well, the accuracy on these are more AK like than they are AR-like, which for the new age rifle its trying to be, its more like an old school battle rifle that simply looks new... and probably wont even go monolithic rail anyway.. been thinking about that more and i can just as easily get a full length rail that mounted to the top of the receiver rail, and the top of the forearm rail too which will give me the advantage of a full length rail with the option to try things with different forearms and stripped uppers...

so for the time being, these new rifles just dont offer what im looking for and i will be ordering components for my 6.8mm AR15
 
The XCR and ACR are good ideas with questionable execution. I have little doubt that the SCAR is superior to the AR on the battle field but at the range with a semi-auto gun you will likely never see a difference in reliability.

If you have money to spend in that price range my first choice would be a Steyr AUG A3, FN SCAR and third choice would be a piston LWRC.
 
though i have a lot of respect for the steyr aug design, ive never been the biggest fan of bullpup designs...

anyway.. read an article on the xcr forum posted by the owner/designer himself and well, about all he managed to do was insult, belittle, and threaten customers and im thinking.. wow, i can see why customer service sucks and he doesnt care how many customers are abandoned on a whim.. so thats definitely and 100% out of the question

since i am going to focus on accuracy, i will go with the AR15 in a direct impinged configuration, seems pistons are roughly 1/2 MOA less accurate which is great... saves me a ton of money on this build that i will either put towards an eotech or trijicon sight, or perhaps a self-lubricating type carrier such as the nickle boron components and just end up with an overall much higher quality system and spare no expense in making this the highest quality, most reliable AR-15 out there
 
I'm not a poodle shooter fan and am certainly not a fan of the AR. If I never have to clean another DGI rifle, it will be too soon. I never got used to the 'SPOING' next to my head every time I fired the rifle, and while even a relatively stupid dog understands it's wrong to poop where you eat, Eugene Stoner apparently did not. The lack of ability to have a folding stock, a charging handle that is only equally inconvenient for everyone... I could go on. Suffice to say I never found the M16 or its civilian counterpart to be "all that."

I don't have any experience with the other poodle shooters listed, but I did handle a SCAR-H a couple of times. For the life of me, I can't understand how if someone could afford it, they would ever deal with a 7 pound poodle shooter when they could have an 8 pound 7.62 NATO. Every other rifle on the market instantly lost its appeal to me when I handled the SCAR. Ergonomics the AR can only dream of, a stock the folds and collapses, excellent sights, built from the ground up as a piston gun... man, if only I had $3K. Until then, I'll just continue to modify and shoot my AK and my M1A.
 
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