XCR or AR15 + mods?

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The "Government Profile" barrel (A2) is actually only thicker from the gas block to the muzzle. It is still M16A1 diameter underneath the handguards, which means a 20" A2 profile barrel weighs about as much as a 16" HBAR. Government Profile is actually a pretty solid choice in ARs since you can still use parts that rely on a 0.750" barrel diameter, without carrying all that extra weight.
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The ability to use .750 diamter gas blocks is a certain plus as options are limited in .625", which was a real pain the rear, but that's exactly my point about misguided AR community. If a barrel is going to be thicker anywhere it is far better served at it's base where heat is greater. Heavy weight at the front does nothing but make the gun front heavy but for the vast majority a complete A1 profile would serve best.
 
GoTigers has the right idea. If you're goal is to prepare for the worst of times, you're focusing too much on one situation. If there is a true SHTF scenario, running out of food and water is going to be a statistically more relevant dire strait than single handedly scouring the countryside ducking from roving gangs and fighting them off with your 3 AKs in varying calibers. Self defense should certainly be a consideration, and one or two WASRs or Yugos in 7.62 with a boat-load of mags and ammo would service you fine, or an AR in 5.56 with similar accessories, or whatever. But a .22 with 10K rounds of ammo can be had for far under a grand and will probably be more useful - can't blast a squirrel with a 7.62 and expect there to be anything left to eat. 5.54? Really? The odds of walking into a vacant house and stumbling across a stash of 5.54 are pretty low.

Now, if you want to buy 3 AKs in 3 calibers for fun or whatever that's cool - do it and don't think twice, but don't be fooled in thinking that would be a suitable rifle cache for a true SHTF scenario - if that's your true concern and you are legitimately trying to stash a little away just in case, broaden your horizons - think practically not tactically.
 
be it due to pick up,
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This is making the very large assumption that one could survive a combat encounter with a trained force.

There are other concerns we will face that pose a more dangerous threat that armed conflict against <insert your favorite enemy>.

AR15 with Gas Piston is a known quantity. Many companies make spare parts for it.
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The gas piston in an AR is a answer looking for a problem. And yes many companies make them, and none of the parts interchange. Good luck with that.

Remember shiny side in...
 
all you need is 1 ar-15,1 beretta 92 and a 22 pistol for small game.stock up on mags,ammo,dehydrated food/mre's. per person per person.these are what will be around and easier to get parts for.all that extra weight is going to be hell to transport/feed.
remember the 1st rule of survival,keep it simple stupid.
 
I love to read threads where people describe their visions of SHTF scenarios. 99% of the time they are hilarious. This one did not disappoint.
 
I have an XCR and I love it. Runs great and has lived up to my expectations. That having been said the company sucks. Take it for what it's worth. Kind of sad to me, such a great firearm from such a lousy place.....
 
If it where me I would have an AR with two uppers one in 556 and the other in 7.62x39. The reason is because those two rounds will be easy to find and in large supply if you are on foot. If you get in to a gun fight and your attacker was using a rifle odds are it is an AK or AR, so you can salvage his ammo and put it to good use. A spare upper and mags are easly carried in a pack and if you have other people with you they can carry the other things needed to survive on the move.
 
To be honest, this "skinny civilian" is 6'2" 240 lbs guy who served 4 years in the Soviet Army, back when his country was superpower and not a POS it is right now.
The reason for 3 calibers is not "picking up from vanquished opponents", but in peacetime- to shoot whatever ammo is cheaper, in SHTF -"scavenging what is around, while he is making his way to Canada"

As far as mags - you do not color code them, you can't see colors at night. You put knobs of them with JBWELD: 1 knob 7.62, 2 knobs 5.45, 3 knobs 5.56 so you can feel them at night.

I have NO intention to go up against military, though the way US is going now, we WILL have to do so, as Ruby Ridge and Waco will be repeated again and again as civilians are held without trial by military as "possible subversive terrorist sympathisers" I have every intention to defend myself as I make it to our North border. Already got Canadian green card.
 
Get whatever makes you happy. It's clear you're fundamentally interested in preparing for a scenario that is unlikely to happen, so what gun you choose really isn't that big of a deal.
 
JustinJ said:
The ability to use .750 diamter gas blocks is a certain plus as options are limited in .625", which was a real pain the rear, but that's exactly my point about misguided AR community. If a barrel is going to be thicker anywhere it is far better served at it's base where heat is greater. Heavy weight at the front does nothing but make the gun front heavy but for the vast majority a complete A1 profile would serve best.
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Go over to the AR15.com archives and search for a user named "coldblue." That is one of the Marine officers involved in the A2 selection process and he has explained the rationale for that decision in the past.

Tigerclaw_x said:
The reason for 3 calibers is not "picking up from vanquished opponents", but in peacetime- to shoot whatever ammo is cheaper, in SHTF -"scavenging what is around, while he is making his way to Canada"
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Вы служил 4 года в армий? Почему вы служил более чем обычно? I can understand wanting to shoot more calibers from the same platform; the part that is giving me trouble is the carrying multiple caliber conversions on foot. That doesn't strike me as practical over several days.

this "skinny civilian" is 6'2" 240 lbs guy
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Your BMI puts you at 30.8 - which is borderline obese for a normal person. Maybe you just have a lot of muscle mass; but I'm thinking that there are probably other things you could carry that would help you more in whatever situation you are imagining than being able to convert your rifle to a new caliber would. However, if you are really set on the idea of being able to shoot as many calibers as possible, a longer action (say 7.62x51) gives you a lot more options caliber-wise.
 
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As far as mags - you do not color code them, you can't see colors at night. You put knobs of them with JBWELD: 1 knob 7.62, 2 knobs 5.45, 3 knobs 5.56 so you can feel them at night.
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Who would be carrying around three different rifles at night with mags similar enough that knobs are needed to differentiate?

Go over to the AR15.com archives and search for a user named "coldblue." That is one of the Marine officers involved in the A2 selection process and he has explained the rationale for that decision in the past.
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I'm not a member so if you can provide the condensed version it would be greatly appreciated. Also, the reasoning for the military to use that profile, grenade launcher attachment for example, may have no bearing on 99% of civilian ARs.
 
Well, according to a number of other people claiming to be "in the know" on M4carbine.net the front end was made heavier because it is where most bending occurs when a sling or bipod is used. Obviously a free float rail would be a better solution. Some also claiming to be "in the know" are saying it is prevent warping when the barrel is used as a pry bar or during parachute landings. According to one other it was essentially due to a mistake. So i stand by my original statment that the gov't profile barrel offers no advantage over a standard skinny barrel for a civilian. Heavier profiles may be less prone to POI shift as a barrel heats up but not if the heavier section is in the front. Let us also not forget that most other assault rifles around the world use a skinny profile barrel.
 
<chest-thumping>

I trump you Tigerclaw. I AM a United States Marine.

</chest-thumping>

And we happen to still be a world super power :)


Just messing with you a little bit. Good idea on the marking of mags with different tactile indicators on them to delineate caliber.

Желаю Вам и Вашей семье Рождеством сэр. Я действительно просто дурачиться.
 
Tigerclaw said:
As far as mags - you do not color code them, you can't see colors at night. You put knobs of them with JBWELD: 1 knob 7.62, 2 knobs 5.45, 3 knobs 5.56 so you can feel them at night.
Click to expand...

This thread is officially hilarious.


Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk
 
Tigerclaw_x said:
As far as mags - you do not color code them, you can't see colors at night. You put knobs of them with JBWELD: 1 knob 7.62, 2 knobs 5.45, 3 knobs 5.56 so you can feel them at night.
Click to expand...

If you can't see the mags in the dark, how do you plan on shooting in the dark? Oh yeah, your infrared goggles. May I suggest you worry about a light source (or two or three) before you start worrying about carrying three guns.
 
if you are in such a world perhaps the best thing you could have is an ak47 or 74 so that you can fire all the 762x39 and 545x39.
If you want rugged dependability just get an ak.
Im not a big ak fan but if im living in a world where spare parts are an issue I want the rifle that can survive 20 years of abusive handling by untrained persons and still work. The AK has survived mutliple decades in african conflicts.

also look into getting one of those old toyota pickup trucks, I think they come with 8 ak toting militia men in the back and also last forever without proper maintenance.

i agree that if you are finding battlefield pick up ammo you will also be finding the weapon that uses it. the concept of building weapon systems that could convert between 7.62x51 and 7.62x39 was for special forces units operating unsupported for extended periods of time. It would allow a transition to the ammo of choice of the enemy (762x39) when nato ammo was unavailable and then conversion back to nato ammo when resupply was there.
Sadly the chinese have been developing and fielding a new rifle in a new 5.8mm round. I havent seen any conversion kits for that around.
 
IMHO get a Rock River Arms AR-15 with their new Wylde Chamber, it can shoot 5.56 and .223 without any disadvantages in either case. For a survival gun I would go with 4x non-powered optic + BUIS, 18" barrel and collapsable stock with lots of storage space, probably pop a "Gripod" onto the RIS as well. Combined this makes it sort of a DMR with decent maneuverability in Close quarters, but my survival kit already includes a pistol grip 870 Marine Magnum if things get too close. In the USA a .223/5.56 is all you need, every shop that carries ammo has it, it has a variety of bullet weights that do well in different situations and our Law Enforcement and Military use it, so (morbid as this may sound and no disrespect to either, assuming a truly bad SHTF situation includes the fall of our first line of defense) if things get that bad (beyond something like Katrina) you will probably be coming across fallen LEO's and National Guardsmen (killed by the conditions [disaster or whatever], rioters, etc.). Not to mention if you do survive the scenario, and manage to link up with whatever remains of the peacekeeping elements you have a shared platform and ammo type.

Just my $0.02
 
@mljdeckard

Yes, and I have done it many times, however, when a .223 is used in a 5.56 NATO rifle, there is some loss of accuracy, and depending on the quality of the .223 load (it is worse with the cheap stuff) it can actually have a noticeable negative impact.
 
No Quarter. Okay, you are a USMC. I guess you do trump me:). And yes, your country is STILL superpower. However, we never know what the future holds. All great empires were brought down from the inside.
As far as why I was in for 4 years: I served in the Airforce, then stayed extra year since I was a medic and they promised that if I give them extra year, i will get into medical school, but before that happened USSR collapsed and the wonderful "Free Ukrainian government" said "USSR promised you something - have them deliver it." Hence I told them to go into a solitary erotic journey and moved here.
Scenario unlikely to happen? I definitely see civil war or civil unrest in here within next 5 years, and when SHTF happens, the army and national guard soldiers will first and foremost run to protect their own families.
 
XCR or Arsenal AK or Gas Piston AR15?

Time for a new rifle. Seriously considering XCR by ROBARM. However it is very expensive ($1600), the customer service is nonexistant, the company reputation for tech support is horrible. On another hand it is VERY modular for $550 you can get a conversion kit into most common calibers. Heavy profile barrels are available. All parts are propriatory. Which means only ROBARM makes them. We all know how well ROBARM supported M96. However I do not know how tough or reliable the gun is.

The alternative 1 is SLR-106. Costs less half of what XCR does. Reviews of it has been AWESOME. Problems: thin barrel (common to most AKs). AK reliability and Arsenal quality are well known. Spare parts are available from many suppliers. For the price of XCR I can get THREE AKs.

Alternative 2. GAS PISTON AR. Gas piston elliminates most of the "smoke in chamber" issue, which makes a problem shooting steel cased ammo in AR15.
The TNW long stroke system is known to have least chances for carrier tilt. The cost of the rifle after everything is installed: 1100. (Heavy profile 20" barrel, chrome lined). Drawbacks - weak extractor. Even with Gas Piston it is more diva then SLR-106. Costs more then SLR-106. Spare parts are plentiful.
For the price of XCR I can get not only a Gas Piston AR, but a nice optics and bunch of mags.

So, folks, help me out. I really need to know how good/bad XCR is. How good/bad ROBARM is. What would make a better choice out of these three as SHTF rifle. To be honest, I seen my friends Bushmaster choke brass ammo after shooting wolf. I seen how dirty it gets after shooting milsurplus.
So I know that AR has to be babied. I am personally used to an AK ergonomics, including short stock (makes lots of sense when you are wearing a thick overcoat or thick winter jacket). However, FAL ergonomics or even AR15 are okay. It isn't about ergonomics, it is about Cost/Efficiency. And by efficiency I mean "reliability +accuracy"

Thank you

D
 
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