XCR, ACR, SCAR over AR15 build? why?

[jason41987]

a scar is little more than a side charging M4... or in the case of the scar-h, a side charging AR10 with a short-stroke gas piston... what would i pay $2,500 for that when i can literally get a side charging upper and gas piston kit for the AR15 for a total price of half that

 

[unwise11]

Taliv pretty much said it.. The .223 is such a great round..

 

[tahunua001]

am I the only person that finds it ironic that an AK shooter is putting down the ergos of the AR?
true, I dislike the ergos of the cookie cutter ARs as much as the next guy but furniture is not that hard to change out. my two ar15s are the most comfortable long guns I own.

 

[jason41987]

im a former M1/AK shooter myself... honestly got tired of all the glaring flaws of the AK and wanted something smaller, and lighter than the M1A as well as something more fun to work on, tweak, upgrade, and enjoy so thats why i was going with the AR15... the new rifles offered the same features, but not as much customizability and at a higher price... besides, mr robinson at robarms posted on the xcr forum a message that made me not even want to give that company a chance..

the message was mostly bashing AR shooters, and anyone thats ever had a complaint about the XCR, calling customers feeble minded, petty, etc.. and im thinking wow.. no wonder robarms wont hesitate to ignore customers like they did with the M96, and with that attitude i could never believe the same will not happen to the XCR... so, whatever time for this AR build of mine

 

[Infidel4life11]

I've run both ACR and SCAR. I enjoyed them both and ran both through a shoot house. I liked to ACR more because the SCAR was bulky to me. However I was slower clearing a room with both on them with the ACR only a few tenths with the SCAR almost half of a sec over my ave. time with my issue M4. I tried all day to get better and .3, .5 was as close as I could get (to my ave. M4 time). Doesn't seem like much but there’s a difference specially watching it side by side on playback

 

[boricua9mm]

I dunno, I'm a big AR fan. It's easy for me to set one up just how I like it...and wind up plunking down $2200+. For me, the SCAR is the only other "battle proven" option. If you can get one for $1600-$1800, then all it needs is an Aimpoint T1 in a decent mount and a Surefire X300 to be fully capable for anything I would need a rifle for.

 

[MachIVshooter]

while even a relatively stupid dog understands it's wrong to poop where you eat, Eugene Stoner apparently did not.

Probably not the best analogy, since a lot of dogs do, in fact, eat their poop. And I've yet to meet a canine that won't chow down on kitty crunchies, given the opportunity.

How does any of it apply to the AR? It doesn't. DI works. They're not still spewing carbon and gas out of the tube when the bolt is opening. Blow-back guns are far dirtier, and I've honestly found the feed area to be just as dirty on piston rifles, as any autoloading design will have the junk leftover in the case falling out into the receiver during extraction.

If I there really was a benefit to piston AR's, that'd be the route I went. Bu all they are is heavier (and sometimes less accurate).

 

[tahunua001]

I agree with machIV. there are much worse systems out there than DI and I find it hilarious how many of the mall ninjas go to my gun range and have their piston driven wonders balk all day because they can't get their pistons tuned to the ammo they are using while the poor guys that mistakenly went out and bought our guns that poop where they eat run circles around them. I just have to laugh every time I hear someone talking about "poops where it eats" because I find it hard to believe that any of them have personally had a problem with a DI rifle jamming due to carbon buildup. here's a little secret for you "poops where it eats" guys

I have a POS DPMS AR15 that has never, and I repeat NEVER been cleaned, about 1500 rounds down range over 3 years and guess what

it still runs

 

[jason41987]

i dont get where everyone says the SCAR is battle proven.. the M16, the AK, the M14, garand, FAL, G3, AUG, these are battle proven, theyve all been out for decades, in various climates, various wars by many different countries... this is battle proven... the SCAR simply hasnt been out long enough to be "proven" and for what use it does have in the military is very, very limited... until it becomes standard issue for a major military and enters into a war as a service rifle, it wont be battle proven, just battle tested on a rather small scale

about the DI vs piston... why hasnt someone simply extended the length of the gas key for direct impinged operated, but vent the gasses outside of the rifle itself through a vented forearm?.. then voila, direct impinged AND keeps the gas and heat out of the receiver?.. but yeah, i really have decided to go with a straight up direct impinged.. however, still not budging on 6.8.. absolutely love the ballistics of that downrange, and will be an awesome big game hunter as well... but when these rifles have come down in price, and more of the kinks are ironed out, ill give them another look.. but for now, AR15 all the way

 

[boricua9mm]

a scar is little more than a side charging M4... or in the case of the scar-h, a side charging AR10 with a short-stroke gas piston... what would i pay $2,500 for that when i can literally get a side charging upper and gas piston kit for the AR15 for a total price of half that

Sounds like you need to get your hands on, shoot, then field strip and actually examine a SCAR. You'll see that the only things it has in common with an M4 is the ammo, safety location, USGI magazine compatability, and multi-lugged bolt. It's a completely different rifle.

i dont get where everyone says the SCAR is battle proven.. the M16, the AK, the M14, garand, FAL, G3, AUG, these are battle proven, theyve all been out for decades, in various climates, various wars by many different countries... this is battle proven...

How much time do you need? It's is an age-old argument that we also see in the realm of pistols. "The Glock is not a proven pistol. It's only been out for 30 years. Now the 1911, THAT'S a proven pistol."

 

[JustinJ]

How does any of it apply to the AR? It doesn't. DI works.

"Works" is a relative term. I have a number of AR's and i like them but DI definitely has its disadvantages. In a semi auto gun that can be maintained frequently they do the job but if i were a guerrilla fighter living in the jungle the AR would not be my first choice. It does speak volumes that no new military rifles are or have been developed with a DI system since the AR.

 

[valnar]

Take a long look at the PWS piston versions, and google some reviews.

 

[meanmrmustard]

"Works" is a relative term. I have a number of AR's and i like them but DI definitely has its disadvantages. In a semi auto gun that can be maintained frequently they do the job but if i were a guerrilla fighter living in the jungle the AR would not be my first choice. It does speak volumes that no new military rifles are or have been developed with a DI system since the AR.

It works in the platform overall though. If jungle fighting were my bag, I'd not take an AR to begin with, but rather an AK variant. You don't see any DI AKs, because it's a niche weapon. It's the Sharks vs the Jets. Greasers and Soc's.

 

[jason41987]

ive actually designed some of my own rifles... i was actually thinking of releasing a design as open-source, and build a community willing to experiment, develop and improve the design into a rifle that could be freely manufactured and sold by anyone... lets face it though, AKs, AR15s, these designs are open source now simply by their age and wide distributions...

but would be cool to see a cutting age, modular firearm be improved upon by the very people that use them.. perhaps with features like interchangable magwell, (one AR15 style, one AK style, one belt-fed), easy to find FCG, interchangable gas systems as well... hmm, if anyone wants to bounce some ideas around, send me an IM