Yet another Glock safety question
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And his passion is unnecessary. Nobody here wants to take his Glock away from him.
But make cogent arguments against the Glock, and the shrill attacking posts come out. The cult kinda attitude is what bothers me. I own 10 or so 1911s, but I know their shortcomings. For example, I wouldn't carry a 70 series C&L today, even though I did for years.
I think that a highly trained individual is probably safe with any weapon system. But a lot of the high and mighty posters ignore facts. I would guess a lot of them have never fired a shot in anger, nor tried to teach todays youngsters how to. There are issues with the Glock system, and I'm not an "idiot" because I have that opinion. My "been there" time isn't where I formed my opinions. When I was 22 I firmly believed we should all be issued 1911s to carry. Today I realize what a crazy idea that would be. I feel the same way about the Glock.
But make cogent arguments against the Glock, and the shrill attacking posts come out. The cult kinda attitude is what bothers me. I own 10 or so 1911s, but I know their shortcomings. For example, I wouldn't carry a 70 series C&L today, even though I did for years.
I think that a highly trained individual is probably safe with any weapon system. But a lot of the high and mighty posters ignore facts. I would guess a lot of them have never fired a shot in anger, nor tried to teach todays youngsters how to. There are issues with the Glock system, and I'm not an "idiot" because I have that opinion. My "been there" time isn't where I formed my opinions. When I was 22 I firmly believed we should all be issued 1911s to carry. Today I realize what a crazy idea that would be. I feel the same way about the Glock.
IMHO and without a preference for Glock, Sig, etc, etc the longer the trigger throw and the heavier the trigger pull...the safer the handgun is. 
Add a manual safety...more safe.
But, the guns are harder to shoot, so you decrease the trigger throw a bit, and lighten up the trigger pull and easier to shoot, a bit less safe though. That's the compromise, every gun has one.
"Safeties" like grip activated on standard 1911's or on the trigger like a Glock are virtually useless, IMO, in preventing an AD.
Add a manual safety...more safe.
But, the guns are harder to shoot, so you decrease the trigger throw a bit, and lighten up the trigger pull and easier to shoot, a bit less safe though. That's the compromise, every gun has one.
"Safeties" like grip activated on standard 1911's or on the trigger like a Glock are virtually useless, IMO, in preventing an AD.
Exactly right.
The younger crowd may not know that John Browning intended the 1911 to not have a manual safety. He thought the grip safety was enough. Using the "keep your finger off the trigger" argument that the Glock folks use, the 1911 carried off safe should be fine. Don't see too many people doing it though.
The younger crowd may not know that John Browning intended the 1911 to not have a manual safety. He thought the grip safety was enough. Using the "keep your finger off the trigger" argument that the Glock folks use, the 1911 carried off safe should be fine. Don't see too many people doing it though.
FireStar_M40
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Bobby Lee..
You made the statement in one of your posts.. "Just in case you are not aware, Glocks are as good or BETTER than the others". You also said (in part).. "that Glock works BETTER than whatever YOU like."
If you don't mind, can you please show me "FACTS" that back up your statement that the Glock is "BETTER" than the others. I find it hard to believe that, of the hundreds and hundreds other handguns available, each and every one of them would be inferior to a Glock. If this is the case, please enlighten me. Inquisitive minds want to know.
I doubt seriously that Glock, (no matter how good owners may think they are), can be held to such a high esteem. I may be wrong now.. but I doubt it.
FireStar_M40
You made the statement in one of your posts.. "Just in case you are not aware, Glocks are as good or BETTER than the others". You also said (in part).. "that Glock works BETTER than whatever YOU like."
If you don't mind, can you please show me "FACTS" that back up your statement that the Glock is "BETTER" than the others. I find it hard to believe that, of the hundreds and hundreds other handguns available, each and every one of them would be inferior to a Glock. If this is the case, please enlighten me. Inquisitive minds want to know.
I doubt seriously that Glock, (no matter how good owners may think they are), can be held to such a high esteem. I may be wrong now.. but I doubt it.
FireStar_M40
Guns_and_Labs
Member
It does, but it's more fun to pick on Glocks, I guess.
[Disclaimer: I own Glocks, Kahrs, 1911's, and anything else I can get my hands on... I like them all.]
Ash
Member
Of course, considering that the holster is considered part of the safety with Glocks, the below establishes the dangers of such light trigger pulls.
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/holster_recalls.html
Ash
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/holster_recalls.html
Ash
To Mr Firestar.
This is my EXACT quote.
"There are plenty of Glock owners with years of experience with ALL handguns that carry a Glock because it has proven itself to be a good reliable and SAFE gun and it works for them better than whatever YOU like"
Perhaps if you would care to read my posts before you jump on me and notice the word THEM in the above quote.
I never once said in that post that my Glock was better than anything but in this post I will damn sure claim it is much better than anything Star ever made.
This is my EXACT quote.
"There are plenty of Glock owners with years of experience with ALL handguns that carry a Glock because it has proven itself to be a good reliable and SAFE gun and it works for them better than whatever YOU like"
Perhaps if you would care to read my posts before you jump on me and notice the word THEM in the above quote.
I never once said in that post that my Glock was better than anything but in this post I will damn sure claim it is much better than anything Star ever made.
Posted by Elmer.
"The younger crowd may not know that John Browning intended the 1911 to not have a manual safety. He thought the grip safety was enough. Using the "keep your finger off the trigger" argument that the Glock folks use, the 1911 carried off safe should be fine. Don't see too many people doing it though"
If you assume that JMB designed the origional 1911 to be carried hammer back with no manual safety you are very wrong.
His origional design did not have a manaul safety like later ones do but in those days the thought of carring a 1911 cocked would not have went over very well just like the idea of carring their SAA revolvers cocked would not have worked.
"The younger crowd may not know that John Browning intended the 1911 to not have a manual safety. He thought the grip safety was enough. Using the "keep your finger off the trigger" argument that the Glock folks use, the 1911 carried off safe should be fine. Don't see too many people doing it though"
If you assume that JMB designed the origional 1911 to be carried hammer back with no manual safety you are very wrong.
His origional design did not have a manaul safety like later ones do but in those days the thought of carring a 1911 cocked would not have went over very well just like the idea of carring their SAA revolvers cocked would not have worked.
Marshall
Member
IMO, the bottom line is that if someone feels uncomfortable with any gun, they are better off with a gun the feel comfortable with.
Whether Glock being less safe as another gun is fact or fiction, it might as well be a fact to someone that is not confident with them.
If anyone doesn't like them or feels uncomfortable with them, buy something else, you'll personally be better off.
Whether Glock being less safe as another gun is fact or fiction, it might as well be a fact to someone that is not confident with them.
If anyone doesn't like them or feels uncomfortable with them, buy something else, you'll personally be better off.
So you believe that Browning intended the gun to be cocked before each engagement? Fascinating, and not what I've been told for 40 plus years. I believe Jeff Cooper is also confused about this.
Since the grip safety is disengaged with no effort, what is it's intended purpose then, if not to keep the gun from firing when not in your hand?
Could you cite your references so I might learn further?
the duck of death
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FireStar_M40,
I thought the same about the Glock, then gave in and bought one. It is THAT good. It's the most reliable semiauto I've ever got my hands on and I have lots of semiautos. eg. 8 1911s. They're butt ugly and work like magic. As far as safety is concerned I won't carry a 1911 cocked and locked and I won't carry a Glock with a round in the chamber.
I am not a novice shooter, for those that are rankled by the above. I shoot IDPA/USPSA with a G23 and have put over 60k rounds thru it in the last 2 years.
I thought the same about the Glock, then gave in and bought one. It is THAT good. It's the most reliable semiauto I've ever got my hands on and I have lots of semiautos. eg. 8 1911s. They're butt ugly and work like magic. As far as safety is concerned I won't carry a 1911 cocked and locked and I won't carry a Glock with a round in the chamber.
I am not a novice shooter, for those that are rankled by the above. I shoot IDPA/USPSA with a G23 and have put over 60k rounds thru it in the last 2 years.
FireStar_M40
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Bobby Lee..
Bobby Lee. I'm NOT trying to call you on anything, but in your post (#33) directed toward me you did say.. "I never once said in that post that my Glock was BETTER than anything". .
If you will, look at your post #14. Your exact statement was.. "Just in case you are not aware, Glocks are as good or BETTER than the others."
By saying "Glocks are BETTER than the others" you have automaticaly qualified and defined a comparison of the Glock firearm to every handgun. The definition of "BETTER" is.. "more advantageous or effective." Others is defined as.. "the remaining of two or more".
If we were to then substitute the words "better" and "others" by using the definitions and not the words themselves, you statement would read as follows, ie: "Glocks are more advantageous or effective than (all) the remaining of two or more handguns".
Yes Bobby Lee, you did say in post #24.. "There are plenty of Glock owners with years of experience with ALL handguns that carry a Glock because it has proven itself to be a good reliable and SAFE gun and it works for them BETTER than whatever YOU like."
When you said "whatever YOU like" in the context that you did, you were NOT refering to a single individual handgun owner (or even me), but to the general public, ie: that being ALL handgun owners.
All that I am asking is that which is a very simple request. "If you don't mind, can you please show me "FACTS" that back up your statements of Glock being BETTER" than everything else. I don't consider my request to be unreasonable. Do You?
FireStar_M40
P.S. Say what you want about STAR firearms, which you did, ie: "I will damn sure claim it is much BETTER than anything Star ever made".. but if you get this riled up and provoked over something as simple a web site posting about Glocks, one might wonder if you should be carrying anything at all?
Bobby Lee. I'm NOT trying to call you on anything, but in your post (#33) directed toward me you did say.. "I never once said in that post that my Glock was BETTER than anything". .
If you will, look at your post #14. Your exact statement was.. "Just in case you are not aware, Glocks are as good or BETTER than the others."
By saying "Glocks are BETTER than the others" you have automaticaly qualified and defined a comparison of the Glock firearm to every handgun. The definition of "BETTER" is.. "more advantageous or effective." Others is defined as.. "the remaining of two or more".
If we were to then substitute the words "better" and "others" by using the definitions and not the words themselves, you statement would read as follows, ie: "Glocks are more advantageous or effective than (all) the remaining of two or more handguns".
Yes Bobby Lee, you did say in post #24.. "There are plenty of Glock owners with years of experience with ALL handguns that carry a Glock because it has proven itself to be a good reliable and SAFE gun and it works for them BETTER than whatever YOU like."
When you said "whatever YOU like" in the context that you did, you were NOT refering to a single individual handgun owner (or even me), but to the general public, ie: that being ALL handgun owners.
All that I am asking is that which is a very simple request. "If you don't mind, can you please show me "FACTS" that back up your statements of Glock being BETTER" than everything else. I don't consider my request to be unreasonable. Do You?
FireStar_M40
P.S. Say what you want about STAR firearms, which you did, ie: "I will damn sure claim it is much BETTER than anything Star ever made".. but if you get this riled up and provoked over something as simple a web site posting about Glocks, one might wonder if you should be carrying anything at all?
Tom Servo
Member
Rule #3 is VERY important with a Glock, moreso than any other make.
Personally, I consider anything less than 8lbs to be a single-action trigger, and I'd be kind of antsy without a safety. Overkill? Probably. I (as in, ME, not everyone else) just have this <8lbs-needs to be decocked, >8lbs-safe mentality when I holster a gun.
Is the Glock inherently unsafe? Not in the right hands. Problem is, LOTS of new shooters with little or no training are buying these things like crazy, and I've seen more than a few NDs, including two that weren't at a range. What's more is, under extreme stress, I'm not sure lots of folks will have anything but the muddiest sense of trigger discipline.
Glocks are a neat design, and I may break into peer-pressure and get one someday, but when I see a newbie with one, I usually keep my distance.
Personally, I consider anything less than 8lbs to be a single-action trigger, and I'd be kind of antsy without a safety. Overkill? Probably. I (as in, ME, not everyone else) just have this <8lbs-needs to be decocked, >8lbs-safe mentality when I holster a gun.
Is the Glock inherently unsafe? Not in the right hands. Problem is, LOTS of new shooters with little or no training are buying these things like crazy, and I've seen more than a few NDs, including two that weren't at a range. What's more is, under extreme stress, I'm not sure lots of folks will have anything but the muddiest sense of trigger discipline.
Glocks are a neat design, and I may break into peer-pressure and get one someday, but when I see a newbie with one, I usually keep my distance.
There lies one of the biggest problems with the Glock IMHO. It's pushed as an easy to train with pistol, and newbies are entranced by the mag capacity, reasonable price, and the Glock mystique.
Instead, I put it in the same category as a 1911. I think it's an experts gun, not a casual shooters gun.
Course, many casual shooters think they're an expert.
Now that's funny! "And his passion is unnecessary. Nobody here wants to take his Glock away from him.
But make cogent arguments against the Glock, and the shrill attacking posts come out. The cult kinda attitude is what bothers me. I own 10 or so 1911s, but I know their shortcomings. For example, I wouldn't carry a 70 series C&L today, even though I did for years."
I have no problems with "cogent arguments against the Glock" if such arugments are based on FACT and ones experience.
Such posters as Mr Firestar who has already proved to me that he knows NOTHING about a Glock and has also admitted that he basically knows nothing about any gun but his own Firestar has any business in this conversation.
If he is not aware that Glocks are good reliable pistols then that just proves his ignorance.
But make cogent arguments against the Glock, and the shrill attacking posts come out. The cult kinda attitude is what bothers me. I own 10 or so 1911s, but I know their shortcomings. For example, I wouldn't carry a 70 series C&L today, even though I did for years."
I have no problems with "cogent arguments against the Glock" if such arugments are based on FACT and ones experience.
Such posters as Mr Firestar who has already proved to me that he knows NOTHING about a Glock and has also admitted that he basically knows nothing about any gun but his own Firestar has any business in this conversation.
If he is not aware that Glocks are good reliable pistols then that just proves his ignorance.
Graystar
Member
The only thing Glocks are more prone to are unfounded statements.
Glock is a marvel of modern PR. There's a reason for all the cult like behavior. Glock has done a great job of convincing folks that they're the experts, and anyone who disagrees with them is a moron. Tons of one day "armorer's" (lol) classes. No recalls, only "product updates." Kabooms are always caused by bad ammo. AD's/UD's are the fault of the shooter, and if they had just been trained by someone bitchin' like you, Sgt., it wouldn't happen. They have millions of employees that they don't have to pay. They've done an amazing job!
Try reading the posts over at "Glocktalk." It's like going to a Moonie induction meeting.....
What I find more interesting than the Glock "cult" is the anti-Glock people out there who spend an inordinate amount of time discussing a pistol they obviously hate. If you don't like it don't buy it. It is kind of entertaining to see/read the "egos" around here though. Actually I've come to expect this type of conversation on GT, but I'm surprised to see the "Gods" arguing so vehemently here on THR.
unspellable
Member
what?
I'm beginning to think I'm not normal. I have one Glock, but only one. I don't think it's the best thing since sliced bread but I don't think it's a hopeless piece of junk either. I plan to keep it but have no plans to buy another. I'm beginning to think I'm not normal because I don't have an extreme position either way on Glocks..
I'm beginning to think I'm not normal. I have one Glock, but only one. I don't think it's the best thing since sliced bread but I don't think it's a hopeless piece of junk either. I plan to keep it but have no plans to buy another. I'm beginning to think I'm not normal because I don't have an extreme position either way on Glocks..
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