Yet another Gun Show rant

[swingset]

I love gun shows. Seriously.

The reason alot of dealers don't carry high-end accessories is because the companies won't sell to just anyone. Leupold doesn't want kitchen table, gun show outfits to undersell their brick and mortar dealers and devalue their product. And, these brick and mortar dealers don't usually sell so well at gunshows, where their prices aren't "low enough" for gun show folk who are looking for well-below-retail. So, it's cheap chinese scopes for you, young man.

Just telling it like it is.

 

[joab]

Maybe I'm just jaded. I remember a time when a gunshow was like a flea market. I also remember when flea markets were like flea markets.

That was about the same time that K-Mart had old Mil- Surps displayed in whiskey barrels on the floor. And they used to hold the shows at the local National Guard armory.

You could buy an Arisaka for $25 and real military uniforms and equipment. Or you could buy new from the now defunct "kitchen table" FFLs at 10 to 20% mark ups. If you saw a beautiful sawed off SxS for $125 and balked a little at the price, not because it was too much but because already spent your money on the Arisaka and equipment, the dealer would say with a smile "If that's too much for you how 'bout an even $100".
Taurus's were still considered foreign junk and a 6" .357 could be had for $125. And you could pay for it at the booth down the lane selling Indian jewlery cause the guy didn't have a CC machine and the transaction would be recorded as $125 worth of turquoise.
It was also a time when a sporterized Mil-Surp was a work of craftmanship and not simply one of Bubba's abominations.
The guns were laying on the tables for your fondeling pleasure not wrapped up in security wires that go off if you look to hard. You could find cowboy guns at real prices cause there was no CAS to drive the price up. Allowing us poor boys the oportunity to buy something besides the $25 Jap. rifles. Guns that now cost more than any in my collection were sold for less than a box of shells today.

Sometimes getting old sucks, you can remeber the way things were but you can't do a damn thing about it but bore the young'uns with stories of the old days.

 

[13A]

I have never bought a gun at a gun show. But it is SO much fun to look! You can count on some vendors bringing exotic stuff.

And case lots of ammo!

Thinking about going to the Tulsa show next weekend.

 

[444]

In my own mind the ideal gunshow would be a place where you can look at, compare, and buy a lot of stuff that your local dealer doesn't have. You see, just like these gunshows, my local dealer doesn't carry good high end stuff either. His stuff isn't quite as bad as a gunshow, but it isn't the stuff I want to buy.
For exampe, let's say you want to buy a spotting scope. Wouldn't it be cool to be able to see different ones, talke to someone that really knows something about them etc. I have no idea if such a place actually exists.

My local dealer bitterly complains about guy shows: he says it takes away business from the local dealers. And he is right, but that is because he doesn't have much of anything for sale to begin with.
He is also very bitter about The Shotgun News. He doesn't think it is right that people should be able to see what guns cost wholesale (he is getting over this gradually). Again, they probably wouldn't be worried about it if they wanted one and he had one to sell them.

The bottom line is that if you want good, high quality products, I guess you just buy them on-line from dealers who ARE making money on them. Instead of telling us all how they would go broke trying to sell good stuff, the are out there DOING IT. I know of very few places where you can look at good quality stuff before you buy it. The only places I know of are at formal matches and at gun schools. These are the people that are buying the serious gear.

 

[Tamara]

444,

For exampe, let's say you want to buy a spotting scope. Wouldn't it be cool to be able to see different ones, talke to someone that really knows something about them etc.

So, let me get this straight: I'm supposed to keep a broad inventory of spotting scopes. I'm supposed to eat the cost of one of each model to use as a demonstrator. I'm supposed to have these out at a gun show for everybody to handle, and provide a knowledgeable salesperson to explain the ins and outs and features of every one so that someone can come along, spend twenty or thirty minutes fondling them and quizzing my salesperson, all so they can then say "Well the Zoomomatic 3000 looks great and has the features I want, and thank you for explaining them to me, but Warehouseco on line has them for $99.95, but you guys are charging $109.49. Thanks for the help. Do you happen to have Warehouseco's 1-800 number?" Forgive me if I don't sound enthusiastic about that business model.

For instance, I had a customer who desperately wanted a new P-3AT. I got him one of the first ones in town. As we all know, it took Mec-Gar a while to get spare mags for these guns into general circulation. I spent an average of two hours a week on the phone, for two months, trying to scare up a spare mag for this cat's new gun. We finally got them, and again he had one of the first ones in town. Yesterday this same guy was in the shop, bitching about the fact that my white box Winchester was $6.15/50, when Wally World was selling it for $10/100. Do you have any clue how hard it was for me to keep from snagging an AR off the rack and butt-stroking this guy? "Next time you need a damn P-3AT mag, why don't you call frickin' WalMart?"

The bottom line is that if you want good, high quality products, I guess you just buy them on-line from dealers who ARE making money on them. Instead of telling us all how they would go broke trying to sell good stuff, the are out there DOING IT.

That's because they are selling out of a minimum overhead situation to a national audience, not a maximum overhead situation to the three ML2 customers in Pahrump and the four Swarovski buyers in Knoxville.

We wonder what's wrong with gun shows? We need to go in the bathroom, turn on the vanity lights, and look hard in the mirror.

I hear WalMart has Chinese-made flip-flops on sale for $0.59/pair this week/btw!

 

[444]

And, as a result, you have nothing to offer me. And, I will spend my money elsewhere.
You stock products to attract people who spend a couple hundred dollars a year. I spend considerably more than that monthly. A year from now, when that guy gets another couple hundred to spend, he might be back. In the mean time, I have spent ten grand with someone else.
You sell him a nylon holster, I will buy a $1000 spotting scope somewhere else.
You sell him a $30 Chinese optic, I will buy a $300 Aimpoint somewhere else.

Business Plan ?

 

[Shootcraps]

Tamara: Excellent description of the real world. I would love to buy your white box Winchester for $6.15.

444: You don't have a clue. People like you are the reason brick and mortar gun stores go out of business.

I love going to gunshows, and the ones here in Virginia are great. I can find a wider selection of things that my local store can't afford (or doesn't have the space) to stock. I even go when I don't have money to buy anything, just so I can see what's out there and keep track of prices.

 

[Roon]

I agree that bricks and mortar stores deserve our business, if they offer a reasonable product and service at a reasonable price. Here in Charlotte, Hyatt's Gun Shop is extremely expensive. They were charging $299 for a M-N M44, where I paid $60 at my local pawn shop, in better condition.

However Hyatt has a selection to kill for, and I reckon we all go in there to touch and feel. I will, and have, bought weapons there, but only when they have a true deal. Even then, I pay somewhat more than internet+shipping+FFL transfer, but I want them to stay in business.

But I draw the line on outrageous prices.

 

[444]

"444: You don't have a clue."
You just figured that out ?

One thing I do have a clue about:
"People like you are the reason brick and mortar gun stores go out of business."
We are talking about gunshows. That is, a rented space in a hall with tables.
Now if you want to get into the discussion of brick and morter gun shops and do more than just take trash over the internet, I will give you the phone number to my local dealer and let you ask him to estimate what I spent there over the years. The number might surprise you.

So put up, or shut up.

 

[Roon]

Hey 444,

Not to go too much OT, but do they let you carry at "The Ranch". (The editorial "you".) I've been there, but don't recall any signs.

That would be a great place to hold a gun show!

 

[444]

They are posted (the two in Pahrump): No weapons.

 

[Quinch]

444, Good points.

 

[Shootcraps]

Then what's the purpose of a gunshow 444? Gunshows are just so dealers and customers can get access to each other easier. Dealers from all over the state are coming to Richmond this weekend to the show. So instead of me driving all over the state to find a nice gun or spotting scope, they migh have it there. If it's not there, it might be at the next show.

Can the local dealer have heartburn about a gunshow? Yes. Because it does take business away from him. It increases his competition about 1000 percent for that weekend.

You ain't seen outrageous prices until you walked into one of the Pawn shops in town here. LOTS of new guns and they're priced at MSRP PLUS. The owners making a fortune.

 

[444]

Yes, what you describe is what I would like a gun show to be. Sort of like a mini-SHOT show. All the cool products are there. I can look at them and touch them in person. All the dealers are in one place just like a convention. But in reality (at least here), there are a couple real full time dealers and a whole bunch of guys that sell JUNK on the gun show circuit. This is fine if you want to buy junk. If you want good quality accessories, odds are, you ain't going to find it at a local gunshow here. So instead of being able to comparision shop for products or being able to check out the latest and greatest, all I can do is compare junk.
Maybe everyone else is right: the vendors wouldn't make any money if they stocked good quality merchandise: they would go broke. But, if you go back to my first post that started this thread, you will see that this is exactly what they are complaining about now. So something has to give. If they are going broke now, then they need to try something else: my suggestion would be to improve the quality of their product. The people that actually have money to spend on this stuff want to spend it on good stuff. To me it only makes sense to find the group of people that actually have disposable income to spend on this hobby and stock the merchandise they want to buy instead of discovering who had the least money to spend on their hobby and catering to them.
But, what do I know ?