Yet another Gun Show rant

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Why do you even bother to go to these shows?

I'm not talking to you so much as repeating what I say to myself every three months when the show comes to Orlando

Where I see the same guys selling the same crap at the same price as they do at their shops every other day of the week.

I used to go to the Orlando gun show whenever it was in town. After 2 trips I realized that most of the guns were way overpriced. I get much better deals ordering online from AIM via my C&R.

I will however pick up 7.62 x 39 and 54 ammo there so I don't have to pay for shipping if I order it online.
 
I go to gun shows for the same reason that I occasionally buy a lottery ticket . . . you never know what's gonna happen. With about the same odds as winning the Powerball, I have found real deals.

Plus there's a local family-owned ammo and reloading supplies business that only sells at shows and they're a convenient way to pick up a few pounds of powder and some bullets at a reasonable if not cheap price.

And don't forget the gunshow coffee and corndogs! Where else you gonna find that besides a skid row flophouse?
 
Every time I do go I hear the exhibiters complaining that the gun shows are getting smaller and going away.

They blame:

1. Politicians.

2. The public for wanting to "kick the tires" and not spend money.


They DON'T blame:

1. The crabby sellers behind the table. You have to wear a $100 bill pinned to the front of your shirt to get them to be nice to you.

2. The inflated prices. Sometimes I think they try to pay for their table in one gun sale.

3. The raving lunatic handing out leaflets and shouting about "jackbooted thugs". (We've heard it already. Leave us alone and let us browse in peace so we don't have to skip that isle.)

4. The lies. "I can't come down on that price more than $10. I'm only $20 over cost now." (When I can find the same gun on another table for $50 less.)

5. The B.S. "You don't see too many of these around anymore." Gee, that's funny. I've seen 3 others today on different tables.

6. The politics. We've heard it. Can't we talk about GUNS for a CHANGE?
 
I won't even bother with gun shows anymore. Around here it's $7 to get in to see a bunch of professional junk dealers.
 
Hey 444, see ya at the 10/23 show, ok? :D

It's even better when they have a concert going on and there's no gun show parking! Hahahahahaha

The prices to park and enter are ridiculous, the wares are a joke (I think Ken likes the doll dealers myself!) but I always wind up going to another show. Sigh.

:D
 
444,

Couldn't agree more with what you wrote. Guns shows here have been getting worse and worse. Less guns and more of all that crap. I can understand asking a few bucks more at a show because those that don't frequent shops are likely to pay the asking price. If not it allows more area to dicker on the prices. It's all the "rare" items that are there I love. So "rare" that everyone there has a few of them. Also, if a sign or seller says the word "genuine" I immeadiately become un-interested. Usually, it's a genuine imitation.
Prices fluctuate in different markets because of the economy of that area. A particualr model up by me will sell for less than the same model closer to Boston where all the "Mass Money" is.
Also, it seems that the mojority of the dealers at shows are "home dealers" that don't actually hacve a storefront. They're the ones that think that having a FFL makes them an absolute genius about firearms and that they automatically have more knowledge than any patron at the show. There are of course the patrons taht have the same attitude. My favorites are the ones that tell the dealers what the gunthey're trying to peddle costs. I'd think the dealer would have a somewhat understanding of costs if they check thier fliers/catalogs which they should have with them.
Not all patrons are like this but listening to them as I walk arond gives me enough reason to NOT want to go shooting with many of them. They're the ones that are there to touch and rub every gun in the place with no intention of buying. They remark about a guns power and size like it's a testosterone shot or something. Tellng thier female companions how it's cool. Then there's the punks that are barely legal to purchase phsically but mentally have a long way to go. No need to detail them, we all know who they are. :uhoh: I guess my other favorites are those that believe that whatever gun they're trying to peddle (patron or dealer)is worth a lot even though it's condition (used) says otherwise. They want all-outdoors for what they have but argue til no tommorrow about the reasonable price of a potential purchase.


Ain't they fun!:banghead:

i'll be attending a gun show this weekend. Not intending to buyanything at all. Going to look for a particular couple models to handle them so that I can decide which I will purchase. If the price is acceptable on the one I choose, it'll be bought. There'll be some dealer's table I'll pass by completely simply becasue of past experiences with them. I'lll pay more a at a few other tables than I would at two particular dealers.

Autta be fun! :p
 
The last gun show I went to was more a freak show then a gun show.
Spent less than 30 minutes there and swore I would never go back.
 
BlkHawk73 said:
...the ones that think that having a FFL makes them an absolute genius about firearms and that they automatically have more knowledge than any patron at the show.

That's a good one. Sometimes I leave the gun show depressed; having realized that I must look stupid.:p
 
Well...

I go to every gun show in Savannah. I have to say that I DO see a lot of junk there, but I also have found much gold, too. My recent acquisitions include:

NIB Universal M1 Carbine, (in its original box) for $369.00 OTD.
AR15 Stag Arms lower, with all the EBR stuff an collapsible stock for $625.00.
Walther P99 Titanium NIB for $539.00.
Rock Island 1911A1-pattern for $299.00.
Colt 1991 with all the gewgaws I was going to add anyway for $550.00 OTD.

Now, granted, there's tons of stuff I wouldn't buy with *your* money, but if you look as to why, it makes sense. There's no better patronized table than the one elderly lady that sells nothing but HighPoints at every show in Savannah. I kid you not.

Also, there are "Those Dealers." They are the ones that look like they're doing you a favor talking to you, let alone selling you anything. We had one this last weekend here in Savannah. Granted, he had a fabulous selection of 03's, M1 Garands, M1 carbines, and original 1911's and 1911A1's but I imagine it's so fabulous only because his prices are so high, and few ever get sold. The cheapest Remington Rand in - admittedly - good shape was $1250.00. The same type I see on GB all the time for $750.00. CMP quality M1 Garands for $1400.00. AND, he's from Florida, which means that to buy one of these, he has to transfer it to a GA dealer at the show before you can take it home... And the other dealer, who has been selling a *used* Taurus 92 for $450.00, that I've seen for sale at the last 3 shows.

For me, the shows are an all-day affair. Deals can be had, but it takes me walking around for several hours, separating the wheat from the chaff before I make my decisions. I really have to hunt around to find the best piece I want, and then there's more time to haggle the best price I can get, but if you're willing to spend the time, you can end up coming home with exactly what you want, at the price you're willing to pay, and feel great about it afterwards.

Lastly, everyone remembers the 'net post about various gunshow types. Here's a game to play, which is more fun if you go with friends:

Print that list out.
Bring it with you.
Check off each type of person that fits the description to a "T."
Assign a spot at the show to go to when you've completed the list

The first person to check off all the types on the page and get to the spot wins free corndogs and ancient fries bought by his friends. As an added bonus, the winner gets a free cheap-ass knife if he doesn't use any of the group playing the game as part of his list! :D :D

..Joe
 
"Gabby Hayes" wrote: "So I can buy machine guns and AK-47s and watch all the terrorists?"

One of the silliest claims by the anti-gun gang (and they have made some doozies) was that terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq were buying AK-47's at American gun shows and smuggling them to the Middle East. Even the normally anti-gun press laughed at that whopper.

Jim
 
Man, some of you guys whining about your gun shows live in states like Nevada. I'd be in heaven if I went to your gun shows. Cali gun shows are so ????ing bad I don't even call them gun shows anymore, more like, "the knife, beef jerky, and surplus militaria show".
 
"Hey 444, see ya at the 10/23 show, ok? "

You know damn well you will see me there.
I am going to be looking for the latest thing out in a glasses cleaner.
 
I think they have the "Quad-50" 10/22 conversion I haven't really checked out yet, and I think they have a new flavor beef jerky I need a sample of. Plus I need stripper clips! :)

I find out tomorrow if I get to have left knee surgery, but if I can I'll go! :p

Man, some of you guys whining about your gun shows live in states like Nevada. I'd be in heaven if I went to your gun shows. Cali gun shows are so ????ing bad I don't even call them gun shows anymore, more like, "the knife, beef jerky, and surplus militaria show".

The shows here are no different than the Cal Expo shows used to be - lots of shirts, nylon crap, crafts and all that but some guns also. Unfortunately 444 is right - these guys seem to think any C&R gun is worth 3 times normal just because THEY have it for sale. If I want a Garand, and I do, I'll get it through the CMP rather than these guys. I did find one good vendor at the last one I went to and bought a new Kimber 10mm for $899, so that wasn't bad.
 
MarkDido,

I used to go to the Orlando gun show whenever it was in town. After 2 trips I realized that most of the guns were way overpriced. I get much better deals ordering online from AIM via my C&R.

That's the whole point of having the flipping C&R in the first place; so you can order millsurps from wholesalers and not have to buy them from the FFL set up at the local gun show with a table of $79 Turks. Where do you think these people buy their Mosins and M48's? From SARCO, just like you do. Then they're supposed to turn around and sell them for less than what they bought them for? I'll submit that that's not a very sound business model...

I swear to gawd, Shotgun News and the "educated" consumer are going to be the death of me.

"Can you order me a Slobbovian Mauser?"
"Sure, I'd be happy to. Let's see... [taps on calculator] With shipping, tax, and background check, that'd be $102.78."
"But ImportCo has them in Shotgun News for $65 in Good Condition!"
"That's where I'm ordering it from, sir." Thinks to self: "I'm supposed to be doing this for free? These lights cost money to run, you know, plus I sometimes get hungry."


Here's my other favorite gun show line:
"Well, will you eat the tax?"
What I say: "Well sir, I'm afraid I can't do that."
What I want to say: "Look sport, tax is 9.25%. My markup on the gun is only 15%. Why don't you do the math? I ain't here for my health, you know."
 
how can the terrorists buy machineguns and such when it seems that the gun shows today are like flea markets...what the hell is jewlery, stuff animals, etc being sold at a gun and knife show...this is just crazy..it isnt just the dealers at shows, what about the promoters...they are letting people in there selling stuff that isnt related to guns.....why because they cant get enough dealers to go to shows in the first place....
 
The club I belong to puts on an annual show to fund youth programs and improvements to the range.
If you want in on the good stuff, you volunteer to work. You see all the stuff as it goes out on the tables for the first time. If you get lucky enough to work the door checking weapons as they are brought into the hall you get first shot at them.
1/4 of the hall is filled with craft items, stuffed animals, coin dealers etc. Why? Because they buy tables too and the variety attracts people not interested in buying guns to the show. Guys want to look at guns, their wives want crafty stuff and they both pay their entry fee to do it.
 
This looks like a good time to repost this. Stop me if you've heard this one alredy. :D

COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO GUN SHOWS:
************
Gun shows are run by and for dreamers. Every dealer who sets up a table seems to think that the people who attend are half-wits who will happily pay 25% more than manufacturer's suggested retail price for their goods; and all the attendees hold it as an article of faith that the exhibitors are desperate men who have come in the hopes of finally disposing of their stock at 30% less than wholesale cost. In this environment it helps to have some idea what to expect; so for the benefit of those who are so unfortunate as never to have experienced this distinctively American form of mass entertainment, I offer this guide.

GLOSSARY
The following terms apply to items offered for sale:

MINT CONDITION: In original condition as manufactured, unfired, and preferably in the original box with all manufacturer's tags, labels, and paperwork.

NEAR-MINT CONDITION: Has had no more than 5,000 rounds fired through it and it still retains at least 60% of the original finish. Surface pitting is no more than 1/8" deep, and both grip panels are in place. If it is a .22, some of the rifling is still visible.

VERY GOOD: Non-functional when you buy it, but you can probably get it to work if you replace 100% of the parts.

FAIR: Rusted into a solid mass with a shape vaguely reminscent of a firearm.

TIGHT: In revolvers, the cylinder swings out, but you need two hands to close it again. For autoloaders, you must bang the front of the slide on a table to push it back.

REALLY TIGHT: In revolvers you cannot open the cylinder without a lever. Once it's open the extractor rod gets stuck halfway through its travel. On autoloaders, you need a hammer to close the slide.

A LITTLE LOOSE: In revolvers, the cylinder falls out and the chambers are 1/4" out of line when locked up. There is no more than 1/2" of end play. For autoloaders, the barrel falls out when the slide is retracted. If the barrel stays in place, the slide falls off.

GOOD BORE: You can tell it was once rifled and even approximately how many grooves there were.

FAIR BORE: Would be similar to GOOD BORE, if you could see light through it.

NEEDS A LITTLE WORK: May function sometimes if you have a gunsmith replace minor parts, such as the bolt, cylinder, or barrel.

ARSENAL RECONDITIONED: I cleaned it up with a wire wheel and some stuff I bought at K-Mart.

ANTIQUE: I found it in a barn, and I think it dates from before 1960. Note that ANTIQUE guns are usually found in FAIR condition.

RARE VARIANT: No more than 500,000 of this model were ever made, not counting the ones produced before serial numbers were required. RARE VARIANTS command a premium price of 150% of BOOK VALUE.

BOOK VALUE: An irrational number which dealers consider insultingly low and buyers ridiculously high. Since no one pays any attention to it, it doesn't matter.

IT BELONGED TO MY GRANDFATHER: I bought it at a flea market two weeks ago.

CIVIL WAR RELIC: The vendor's great-grandfather knew a man whose friend had been in the Civil War.

SHOOTS REAL GOOD: For rifles, this means at 100 yards it will put every shot into a 14" circle if there isn't any wind and you're using a machine rest. For handguns, three out of six rounds will impact a silhouette target at seven yards. In shotguns, it means that the full choke tube throws 60% patterns with holes no bigger than 8" in them.

ON CONSIGNMENT: The vendor at the show does not own the gun. It belongs to a friend, customer, or business associate, and he has been instructed to sell it, for which he will be paid a commission. He has no authority to discuss price. The price marked is 150% above BOOK VALUE. All used guns offered for sale at gun shows, without exception, are ON CONSIGNMENT, and the dealer is required by his Code of Ethics to tell you this as soon as you ask the price. A BATF study has proven that since 1934 there has never been a single authenticated case of a used gun being offered for sale at a gun show that was actually owned by the dealer showing it.

I'LL LET IT GO FOR WHAT I HAVE IN IT: I'll settle for what I paid for it plus a 250% profit.

MAKE ME AN OFFER: How dumb are you?

TELL ME HOW MUCH IT'S WORTH TO YOU: I'll bet you're even dumber than you look.

PEOPLE YOU WILL MEET AT THE GUN SHOW:

RAMBO: He's looking for an Ingram MAC-10, and wants to have it custom chambered in .44 Magnum as a back-up gun. For primary carry he wants a Desert Eagle, provided he can get it custom chambered in .50 BMG. He derides the .50 Action Express as a wimp round designed for ladies' pocket pistols. He has already bought three years' worth of freeze- dried MRE's from MARK, as well as seven knives. He is dressed in camoflage BDU's and a black T-shirt with the 101st AirBorne Division insignia, though he has never been in the Army. He works as a bag boy at Kroger's.

BUBBA: He needs some money, and has reluctantly decided to sell his Daddy's .30-30, a Marlin 336 made in 1961. He indignantly refuses all cash offers below his asking price of $475. Unable to sell it, eventually he trades it plus another $175 for a new-in-box H&R Topper in .219 Zipper. He feels pretty good about the deal.

GORDON: He is walking the aisles with a Remington Model 700 ADL in .30-06 on his shoulder. He's put an Uncle Mike's cordura sling and a Tasco 3x9 variable scope on it. A small stick protrudes from the barrel, bearing the words, "LIKE NEW ONLY THREE BOXES SHELLS FIRED $800." This is his third trip to a show with this particular rifle, which he has never actually used, since he lives in a shotgun-only area for deer.

DAWN: She is here with her boyfriend, DARRYL. At the last show, DARRYL bought her a Taurus Model 66 in .357 Magnum. She fired it twice and is afraid of it, but she keeps it in a box on the top shelf of her clothes closet in case someone breaks in. She is dressed in a pair of blue jeans that came out of a spray can, a "Soldier of Fortune" T-shirt two sizes too small, and 4" high heels. DARRYL is ignoring her, but nobody else is.

DARRYL: He has been engaged to DAWN for three years. He likes shotguns for defense, and he's frustrated that he can't get a Street Sweeper, so he's bought a Mossberg 500 with the 18-1/2" barrel, a perforated handguard, and a pistol grip. He plans to use it for squirrel hunting when he isn't sleeping with it. He plans to marry DAWN as soon as he gets a job which pays him enough to take over the payments on her mobile home.

ARNOLD: He is a car salesman in Charlottesville, Virginia. He has a passion for Civil War guns, especially cap-and-ball revolvers. He has a reproduction Remington 1858, and is looking for a real one he can afford. He owns two other guns: a S&W Model 60 and a Sauer & Sohn drilling his father brought home from the war in 1945. He has no idea what caliber the rifle barrel on his drilling is, and he last fired the Model 60 five years ago.

DICK: He is a gun dealer who makes his overhead selling Jennings J- 25's, Lorcin .380's, and H&R top-break revolvers. He buys the J-25's in lots of 1000 direct from the factory at $28.75 each, and sells them for $68.00 to gun show customers. He buys the H&R's for $10 at estate auctions and asks $85 for them, letting you talk him down to $78 when he is feeling generous. His records are meticulously kept, and he insists on proper ID and a signature on the 4473. He doesn't care whether the ID and the signature are yours, however. Other than his stock, he owns no guns and he has no interest in them.

ARLENE: She is DICK's wife. She hates guns and gun shows more than anything in the world. Her husband insists that she accompany him to keep an eye on the table when he's dickering or has to go to the men's room. She refuses to come unless she can bring her SONY portable TV, even though she gets lousy reception in the Civic Center and there isn't any cable. When DICK is away from the table, she has no authority to negotiate, and demands full asking price for everything. She doesn't know the difference between a rifle and a shotgun, and she doesn't care, either.

MARK: He doesn't have an FFL. He buys a table at the show to sell nylon holsters, magazines, T-shirts, bumber stickers, fake Nazi regalia, surplus web gear, MRE's and accessories. He makes more money than anyone else in the hall.

ALAN: He's not a dealer, but he had a bunch of odds and ends to dispose of, so he bought a table. On it he displays used loading dies in 7,65 Belgian and .25-20, both in boxes from the original Herter's company. He also has a half-box of .38-55 cartrdiges, a Western-style gun belt he hasn't been able to wear since 1978, a used cleaning kit, and a nickel-plated Iver Johnson Premier revolver in .32 S&W. He's asking $125 for the gun and $40 for each of the die sets. He paid $35 for the table and figures he needs to get at least that much to cover his expenses and the value of his time.

GERALD: He's a physician specializing in diseases of the rich. He collects Brownings, and specializes in High-Power pistols, Superposed shotguns, and Model 1900's. He has 98% of the known variations of each of these, and now plans to branch out into the 1906 and 1910 pocket pistols. He owns no handguns made after the Germans left Liege in 1944. He regards Japanese-made "Brownings" as a personal insult and is a little contempuous of Inglis-made High-Powers. He does not hunt or shoot. He buys all his gun accessories from Orvis and Dunn's.

KEVIN: He is 13, and this is his first gun show. His eyes are bugged out with amazement, and he wonders what his J.C. Higgins single-shot 20-gauge is worth. His father gives him an advance on his allowance do he can buy a used Remington Nylon 66. He's hooked for life and will end up on the NRA's Board of Directors
 
You guys bad mouthing the dealers are missin gthe deals.

I've bought dozens of guns at shows, but very few from tables. The deals are slung over the shoulders of guys who have been offered an insult at every table they've stopped at wanting to trade.
 
Maybe the shows around here are better than where you live, or maybe my expectations are a lot lower. At a typical show, you can expect to see several categories of vendors:

1. Sellers of gun-related "hillbilly flea market" junk as mentioned by the original poster. I ignore these tables.

2. Sellers of non-gun-related "hillbilly flea market" junk like crafts, jewelry, alternative homeopathic remedies, etc. I ignore these also.

3. Sellers of new guns. I'm an FFL, so I pass on these.

4. Old guys that have the same table of the same stuff they've owned for 40 years, all priced too high to ever sell, like a Winchester 63 in fair condition for $575. I stop by and ask how their cataract or prostate surgery went, knowing that the gun show is their $40 weekend pass to get away from the shrews they've been married to for over 50 years, and is probably keeping them alive and/or sane.

However, in addition to these vendors, there are the ones that keep me coming back:

A. The guy selling inexpensive (3/$10) nylon pistol cases, rifle cases, and bags. I know I can pick up cases for next to nothing for the guns I've recently acquired.

B. The guy selling reloading components. I can save on hazmat fees.

C. The guy selling cartridge boxes, cleaning supplies, etc. I can pick up odds and ends that I use regularly.

D. The ammo guys. They know I buy in quantity and pay with hundred dollar bills. Wolf .45 for $120 a thousand and no shipping makes me happy and gives them a 12% margin, not bad if you're turning your inventory quickly, and these guys are.

E. The serious Military Surplus vendors. They have multiple tables and are VERY organized. If I need a $5 part, one of them has it. I don't care if he bought a thousand of them for a nickel each. In fact, I'm glad. It keeps him coming back and setting up, so he's there when I need him.

F. Book sellers, especially used gun books. I add to my library about every other show.

G. The guy who does a GREAT job of sharpening knives for $2.

H. People with tables full of old gun-related stuff they got when their dad died and they want to get rid of. Yes, a lot of junk, but occasionally a Hollywood Senior tool for $75, or a Chic Gaylord holster for $5.

I. People selling used guns. Sure, a lot of them are overpriced, but not all. It's known around here that I'm a buyer of Smiths, particularly N-frame magnums, and have cash in my pocket. People offer me guns at realistic prices when they know this. I got a 10 5/8" Model 29 that shoots 3 MOA for $340 recently. It had slight pitting on the backstrap, so I didn't steal it, but it's a great shooter. A M19 with some blue wear for $175, a M66 with a botched roundbutt conversion (covered by Herrett gips) for $225, and a mint 8 3/8" 629 for $375.

J. The gun-rights group raising money. I ALWAYS stop by their table, donate $5 or $10, and give them a pep talk. A year ago I donated a pre-ban AR clone for GCLA (Gateway Civil Liberties Alliance) to raffle and these guys managed to raise over EIGHT THOUSAND dollars with it! Every one of you should find a similar grassroots group and seek them out at every show. Give them $5, and talk them up to other patrons. We need them more than all the other gunshow vendors combined.

JR
 
Okay folks, so stay home and cut the grass. I'm going to the gun show this weekend and walk around. If I find anything to buy it'll be a bonus.

John
 
I agree with JohnBT. The gunshows are pretty good in Virginia. At least you can find a wheelgun there. Most of the stores don't carry them anymore as folk have moved up to them fancy automatics. ;)

See you at the gunshow John!
 
Because every 3 or 4 shows that class III dealer brings out all the goodies just to be nice and let the unwashed masses fondle them. Even as annoying as the NFA is, registering new guns at least would be really nice. I wouldn't mind the background check or even the taxes if I could get an non-neutered P90.
 
MARK: He doesn't have an FFL. He buys a table at the show to sell nylon holsters, magazines, T-shirts, bumber stickers, fake Nazi regalia, surplus web gear, MRE's and accessories. He makes more money than anyone else in the hall.



LOLOLOL!!!!!!

Your are a truthteller and perceptive!

WHy is it that there are always people playing with themselves over anything even resembling anything "Nazi". Also, this person probably also have some Klan stuff and a belly that isn't quite covered by a shirt.
 
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