You have the RIGHT...

JohnKSa said:
...to confront someone messing with your vehicle. But it might not be the best option.

A man noticed someone trying to steal his catalytic converter and went to see what was going on. Turned out there were 4 of them, at least one of them keeping watch. The vehicle owner was shot, but fortunately survived.



We tend to assume that because we have a firearm, we've covered the bases and that going out to check on things will be a safe option. Turns out that guns don't stop bullets, and what you don't see can hurt you a lot.
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A few years ago my next-door neighbor had to be moved out of his house because his mental state had seriously declined and the conditions were causing health issues. A hazardous waste disposal outfit was hired but after the first couple of days they would show up for an hour or two maybe twice a week. Meanwhile several months went by with their giant dumpster parked on the street, which they didn't even bother to lock the back of. One of the neighbors texted several of us to report seeing a vagrant using the dumpster as a place to sleep. No way was I going to go outside to check, suggesting instead to call the police. To my astonishment the lady across the street (who is even older than me) went out and looked inside it. At night, in the dark. No idea if she first armed herself but to me that seemed like a textbook example of foolhardiness.
 
old lady new shooter said:
To my astonishment the lady across the street (who is even older than me) went out and looked inside it. At night, in the dark
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We have bears here. If I thought a BEAR might have got in a dumpster by my house, I think I may lock that dumpster and call FWC about the bear.:rofl:
 
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gwpercle said:
I'm tired of people telling me I'm better off letting the bad guys rob me blind ... and it's safer for me to stay inside and NOT confront the bad guys .... when I hear this I think are the bad guy's paying you to post this nonsense .
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I think it comes from a risk/reward assessment. If the guy that got shot had not confronted them, they would have stolen his converter, that would have cost him a couple hundred bucks to replace. He’s probably still getting bills from the hospital (probably anesthesiologist) that are more than the converter replacement cost.

Being smart doesn’t mean you are being a pushover. You should never walk into an ambush, no matter how upset you might be. It’s just not a good tactic.

He would have been better off having access to or his own cameras to cover all the angles outside. He would have been better informed as to what he was walking into.
 
In Harris County, Texas, an off-the-clock deputy was shot and killed, when he intervened in a catalytic converter theft. (Houston area.) I do not know whether the deputy was killed by an “overwatch” shooter, but, it is important to realize that an increasing number of theft gangs, and other felons, are using overwatch shooters.
 
Rexster said:
In Harris County, Texas, an off-the-clock deputy was shot and killed, when he intervened in a catalytic converter theft. (Houston area.) I do not know whether the deputy was killed by an “overwatch” shooter, but, it is important to realize that an increasing number of theft gangs, and other felons, are using overwatch shooters.
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In April, an off duty deputy was killed when he came upon several suspects taking catalytic converters.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/t...uspected-catalytic-converter-thieves/2929620/

I think it would be wise to assume that any situation in which people are trying to remove and take something may involve multiple participants.

Personally, I would not confront anyone over property. Some years ago, we read here of an incident in which a person who went out to do that carried a firearm "for self defaense"; the situation turned violent, and a shooting death resulted. The armed citizen claimed self defense, but the court decided that the man's initial objective had been to defend property, and he was convicted.

Would that happen in another incident in an adjacent county? The same county? One can only speculate.

In most jurisdictions, a citizen may employ non-deadly physical force to prevent theft or terminate trespass, but that would not justify escalation to deadly force.

That would not apply to a sworn officer.
 
In some cases, the bad guys are inside multiple vehicles. It has happened, multiple times. So, overwatch shooters may, potentially, be inside vehicles, parked halfway up or down the block, where cameras of most residential/business security systems cannot see them. Other than switching-on additional outside lighting, to communicate that I/we are aware of their presence, and perhaps setting off an alarm, there are few things that a homeowner can actively do, in relative safety. In a typical residential neighborhood, best to let arriving officers handle it, if they can arrive in time. (Our PD usually arrives quickly, and, I would not be switching-on additional lights that might make the officers’ job more difficult.)

At my wife’s family’s rural property, we might take different actions. Not every plan is suited to every environment.
 
Rexster said:
In some cases, the bad guys are inside multiple vehicles. It has happened, multiple times. So, overwatch shooters may, potentially, be inside vehicles, parked halfway up or down the block, where cameras of most residential/business security systems cannot see them.
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That's something to consider. The idea had never occirred to me.
 
Tactically this is a great example of how to get drawn into an ambush as a civilian. I would like to imagine the bad guys all work with the same level of intelligence and skill as the ones in Deathwish 3. The reality is that I do not use or experience violence on a daily basis, but many of them do.

Understand your advantages in a situation and use them - lighting, surprise, calling in for a SWAT team, whatever. Don't give them up by walking into the open and becoming the best target.
 
A different incident involving catalytic converter theft in another part of the U.S. One person works on the car while the other stands watch with a firearm aimed at the door of the residence.



These guys are not fooling around. If a homeowner goes out expecting that the bad guys will just take off when they show up with a gun, they could be in for a very nasty surprise.
 
If someone is just stealing something call the police & pull out your phone & video everything. Keep you gun handy in case you need it.
If someone is breaking in to a storage shed or detached garage call police & video or if you can drive your vehicle up & block the door. Keep you gun handy in case you need it.
If someone is breaking into your home shoot them & then call police.
If someone is setting a fire to you home or other structures shoot them & make sure they are dead. People like that don't need to draw another breath.
 
A little simple tip shared with me by a local sheriff. Most all cars 20 years in production have a key fob for locking and unlocking the doors. On that fob "usually" is a panic button to activate the car horn to incessantly beep. He advised seeing somebody around your car at night "from you window inside your home" use the fob to get the horn blowing. Works also if someone you don't know or want to deal with late at night is on your front porch. Hit the car panic button on your fob. Then call the fuzz.
 
Electrod47 said:
A little simple tip shared with me by a local sheriff. Most all cars 20 years in production have a key fob for locking and unlocking the doors. On that fob "usually" is a panic button to activate the car horn to incessantly beep. He advised seeing somebody around your car at night "from you window inside your home" use the fob to get the horn blowing. Works also if someone you don't know or want to deal with late at night is on your front porch. Hit the car panic button on your fob. Then call the fuzz.
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A good idea...
An echo of my earlier post though:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/you-have-the-right.913814/#post-12495562
:uhoh:
.
 
AK Hunter said:
If someone is setting a fire to you home or other structures shoot them & make sure they are dead. People like that don't need to draw another breath.
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Then there's an awkward moment where you're sitting in court and you hear the prosecuting attorney read that line word for word to the jury who's deciding whether or not you're guilty of murder
 
Night Rider said:
Then there's an awkward moment where you're sitting in court and you hear the prosecuting attorney read that line word for word to the jury who's deciding whether or not you're guilty of murder
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Well put.

We do not offer such sentiments on THR.
 
Night Rider said:
Then there's an awkward moment where you're sitting in court and you hear the prosecuting attorney read that line word for word to the jury who's deciding whether or not you're guilty of murder
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A pyro is a deadly danger to everyone I don't think a jury anywhere that would convict someone shooting one.
 
In TX deadly force is justified to PREVENT the imminent commission of arson.

As always, legal deadly force is about prevention, which means that it is to STOP someone from committing or continuing the commission of a serious crime.

Once they have stopped, the justification disappears since deadly force can't legally be used to punish or to take revenge.

In places where arson qualifies as justification for the use of deadly force, it would be legal to use deadly force to stop someone from committing arson, but if they were still alive after they had been stopped, and someone "made sure they were dead" at that point, they would be committing murder.
 
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