You really need all that firepower?

[Deanimator]

A Garand semi's 30.06, devastating compared to mere .308s and 5.56s.

But you don't see any sheeple running around going "O-M-G, A GARAND!

Actually, wasn't that EXACTLY the argument recently against importing ex-Korean militia M1s?

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

ANY rifle or shotgun with a black polymer stock featuring a hand grip scares the sheep.......................The stigma is the liberal media's rendition of "firepower" Everybody knows that you can't discuss firepower until you get into belt fed crew served BB guns !

 

[BullfrogKen]

Do you really need all those televisions? How about a car capable of breaking the speed limit? How about all that junk food?


I have problems with people who feel the need to tell others what they should and should not do.

 

[Tim the student]

Robert, why are the looks of a rifle throwing you for loops? You think it boils down to a fantasy of wanting to kill people?

Which again leads me to wonder about the mindset of their owners: they obviously want a weapon that mimics the appearance of weapons meant for killing people.

Meant for killing people huh? You mean like a 1903? So, do you hold the same opinion about guys that use hundred year old bolt guns, or do you only hold that argument for the AR guys?

at least until you put a high-cap magazine into the AR.

Do you mean a capacity of 20 or 30? That is standard, not high capacity.

 

[therewolf]

My point, Deanimator, is that ARs and "black rifles" have gotten so much bad

press that most people have flawed perceptions pertaining to the actual

situation.

 

[Deanimator]

My point, Deanimator, is that ARs and "black rifles" have gotten so much bad press that most people have flawed perceptions pertaining to the actual situation.

My point is that the "argument" such as it is, is infinitely expandable to cover ANY firearm, from a Kalashnikov to a Pennsylvania rifle. But then dishonesty is like that, and anti-gunners are nothing if not dishonest to a fault.

 

[Robert Wilson]

It's EXACTLY what got us the AWB.

I still disagree. What got us the ABR was the same thing that has gotten us nearly all our gun laws: the desire of some people to ban any guns possible with any pretense.

 

[Walkalong]

Actually, wasn't that EXACTLY the argument recently against importing ex-Korean militia M1s?

Yep, exactly.

What got us the ABR was the same thing that has gotten us nearly all our gun laws: the desire of some people to ban any guns possible with any pretense.

That is part of it for sure, but the antis use the "you don't need it" argument a great deal and it was a big part of the AWB.

They can not win with logic, so they use scare tactics and false statements. It's dangerous, it's too powerful (They show a watermelon being shot with an .06 and pretend it's a .223), it's not "needed', etc, etc.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Robert, why are the looks of a rifle throwing you for loops? You think it boils down to a fantasy of wanting to kill people?

Not directly. I think many people buy these guns because of the perceived romance of battle; the heroism, sacrifice, and excitement inherent to it.

Meant for killing people huh? You mean like a 1903? So, do you hold the same opinion about guys that use hundred year old bolt guns, or do you only hold that argument for the AR guys?

Only the guys with the modern rifles, including AKs, FN/FALs, and the like. I assume the guys using 100 year old battle rifles are just broke.

Do you mean a capacity of 20 or 30? That is standard, not high capacity.

Not in the hunting field, and not when compared to the standard magazine of the OPs AR pattern rifle.

 

[Walkalong]

Not directly. I think many people buy these guns because of the perceived romance of battle; the heroism, sacrifice, and excitement inherent to it.

I think they buy them because they are reliable, versatile, accurate, have tons of options to suit ones taste, and are just plain fun. Most AR owners end up with more than one. That says a great deal. I have never met someone who shot mine without a big smile when their done. Even the media influenced folks who fear the look give a big smile and realize at the same time that it is a gun like any other. The owner is either good or bad, but the gun is just a gun. Love seeing the light bulb go on for some people.

Not in the hunting field

It is still standard capacity, whether one thinks it is more than needed for hunting or not.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Lest folks decide to "Zumbo" my THR writing career (Hah!) I'll try to make my point as simple as possible:

When I see a guy in the woods with a traditional muzzleloader, I assume he's excited about history and enjoys emulating an old buckskinner.

When I see a guy in the woods with a double rifle, I assume he's excited about dangerous game hunting and enjoys emulating an African hunter.

When I see a guy in the woods with a Lightning pump and a matching SAA, I assume he's excited about the old West and enjoys emulating a cowboy.

And when I see a guy in the woods with an AR, I assume he's excited about warfare and enjoys emulating a soldier.

Maybe I've been brainwashed by the media, but I still feel an urge to keep an eye on the guy who's excited about warfare.

 

[Robert Wilson]

I think they buy them because they are reliable, versatile, accurate, have tons of options to suit ones taste, and are just plain fun.

Lots of guns are reliable and versatile. And lots of guns are more accurate than the average AR. Options I can understand, but those options usually seem to involve hanging "tactical" stuff on an accessory rail, which just reinforces my opinion that there's some ninja-wannabe stuff going on here. Just plain fun? Great - but why are they any more fun than anything else?

It is still standard capacity, whether one thinks it is more than needed for hunting or not.

What is the standard capacity of the OP's rifle, please?

 

[eye5600]

There seem to be plenty of guys who want a military-styled rifle and a 30-round magazine, and who think the way to enjoy it is to empty the mag as quickly as possible. I don't get it, but there are lots of other recreational activities that I also don't get, like sliding down a snowy mountain on thin boards.

But it's relevant.

There is really no proof that gun ownership leads to crime or any other kind of problem. All the people who are moan that lax gun laws lead to bad results are making it up. Those guys with the AR-15 are not showing up on the police blotter. Gangs tend to have AKs and Mini-14s because they are cheaper, and even then, that's mostly for bragging rights. Most of the actual shootings are done with hand guns.

 

[Walkalong]

And when I see a guy in the woods with an AR, I assume he's excited about warfare and enjoys emulating a soldier.

Maybe I've been brainwashed by the media, but I still feel an urge to keep an eye on the guy who's excited about warfare.

I'll go with "brainwashed by the media", and/or just want to argue.

 

[Robert Wilson]

I'll admit that I like to argue about the topic, simply because owners of military-style semi-autos brook no discussion or dissent on the matter. I figure any topic that induces so much defensiveness and emotion deserves evaluation.

And I'll admit that I may indeed be brainwashed. TV is a powerful medium.

But I'll also note that your post is a dodge.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Ok, lets just ask the question outright.
Robert, do you think AR type semi autos should be allowed, or not?
This question is coming from someone who does not even own a semi auto rifle other than the .22 variety, I just want to hear it straight.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Yes, I absolutely think AR style semi-autos should be allowed.

 

[xcgates]

Geee, I want to get an AR style rifle because it has been what I have (limited) experience with in the military. Perhaps I just like the way it feels/works/handles?

What do you think the mosin nagant in my closet was produced/designed for?

What do you think the Ducati ST3 in my garage was designed for? It is my daily driver, and can easily exceed 100 mph. Yet I manage (knock on wood) to have never been pulled over, not to mention get a ticket. (I put less than 50 miles on cages per week, including the work truck I very occasionally take out.)

That said, on the back and forth with Robert, I also wonder what goes on in the mind of males that sport long hair and tight pants (apparently the *in* thing with highschoolers), but that doesn't mean I think hairstyles and tight pants should be regulated. I'll laugh and make some comment, and they will laugh and make a comment about my buzzed hair and ABUs. Fair is fair, right?

But all this is side-tracking from the OP. To him/her I say: every time I have taken a gun newbie to the range, it has been a positive experience. And lets just say that I planted some ideas in my uncle's mind that my aunt didn't really appreciate. (They are from California, and she pretty much is the definition of "helicopter parent")

 

[Unistat]

That's like explaining to my Michigan born and raised mother and sisters that "No it's not a machine gun, no I don't have to have a license or permit for it, and yes you can shoot it!"

If they are from Michigan, they should know better. Our laws are not that different from Florida's except for the entirely ridiculous pistol registration. Certainly there is no restriction on what firearms you can own here.

 

[Unistat]

I'll admit that I like to argue about the topic, simply because owners of military-style semi-autos brook no discussion or dissent on the matter. I figure any topic that induces so much defensiveness and emotion deserves evaluation.

And I'll admit that I may indeed be brainwashed. TV is a powerful medium.

But I'll also note that your post is a dodge.

Yes, I absolutely think AR style semi-autos should be allowed.

This is normally called trolling.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Geee, I want to get an AR style rifle because it has been what I have (limited) experience with in the military. Perhaps I just like the way it feels/works/handles?

I think that's a perfectly valid reason, not that anyone needs approval from me.

What do you think the mosin nagant in my closet was produced/designed for?

I never see the creepy "tactical/ninja/warrior" types playing with old milsurps. Though we all stayed the hell away from that guy with the Luger and the swastikas...

What do you think the Ducati ST3 in my garage was designed for?

Separating rich middle aged squids from their money, just like my 748.

 

[Robert Wilson]

This is normally called trolling.

Only by people who don't know what trolling is. Everyone else calls it "debate".

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

30 is / was the standard magazine capacity, The 20 round was introduced to eliminate/ minimize complications feeding the cartridge. High Reliability or HR. You can get 40 round magazines or even a C-mag which is 100 rounds. I wouldn't bet my six on either of those.
but then again,..............what do I know........................

 

[Robert Wilson]

Per Remington, the standard capacity of the R-25 is four. Not that that's actually important to the discussion.

 

[Walkalong]

your post is a dodge

Possibly, and that is just a taunt.

Lets say they ban all AR's from the hunting fields. We will assume they stop all AR's from being sold but we can keep the ones we have.

Next will be the other semi auto rifles. (They will have tried to get them with hidden wording in the AR ban (Like they have tried before with various gun ban bills), but we won that one for now)

So, the 742 and the BAR (and others) hold what? 4 or 5 rounds?

You do not "need" 4 or 5 rounds to kill a deer. You do not "need" those rifles will be the next wave of gun grabbing BS.

After they get those it will be some other scare tactic about whatever we have left. They will never stop because of what you posted earlier, they just want to take all of our guns. We must not fall into the trap of calling things something they are not and falling into the "we don't need" trap.