Homeland Defense Rifle on a tax return budget

[henschman]

I think some of you are misreading the OP... he isn't saying he wants a HOME defense rifle... he says he wants a homeLAND defense rifle. That is a very different thing, in my book. A home defense rifle is something that will only be used at extremely close quarters and indoors, if at all, against at most a few lightly-armed common criminals and would not usually be required to undergo a particularly high round count in between cleaning.

A homeland defense rifle, I would imagine, is something that you keep in order to fulfill your duty to stand ready to defend your liberty against anyone who might threaten it. Everyone has their own ideas about who exactly the most likely threat would be, but I would think the general scenario would invovle multiple bad guys who are at least as well armed as you are, probably vehicle-borne, and probably with some form of body armor. Expected ranges could be anything from point blank to long range (out past 600m), depending on the situation.

I believe a 7.62x51 to be the best choice for this role because of superior penetration and max effective range, but I believe in having a 5.56 AR as well, for ammo and parts commonality. It is definitely a good place to start if you don't have a lot of money to sink into a rifle and ammo. Like I said, I prefer the 20" barrel if there is a possibility of it being used at the longer ranges (i.e. out past 300m). A 1/7 twist is a good idea, since it is set up to use the mil spec 62 grainers and can use up to the 77 grainers for longer range and better terminal ballistics. The longer barrel really won't handicap you too much... if you get a gov't profile barrel, it is still plenty light weight, and it's not terribly long and unwieldly for close quarters either.

JMO/FWIW/etc.

 

[christcorp]

Wow....... simply; wow.......

 

[DBryant]

Well, if I had $1000-$1200 to spend on just a rifle and two mags and I wanted it to chew cheaper fodder than .308's, then I would look at either a Sig 556 or a PTR-32.

In full disclosure, I have to admit that I really like the HK/Sig style of iron sights so if those aren't you're cup of tea then you might not care for the PTR.

 

[goon]

I didn't realize that there even was such a thing as a PTR-32. Interesting option. Not sure it's what I'm looking for, but I'm glad to be that much more educated.

Henschman - you are correct. This isn't planned to be an HD weapon per se.

 

[Effigy]

Do have $1,000 to spend on a rifle or $1,000 to spend? Let me explain. Having a functioning "Homeland Defense" weapon means more than just owning a rifle.

This. The cost of accessories can easily rival the cost of the basic rifle, before even talking about an ammo stockpile.

.308 is going to be more expensive than .223 for sure, but you can still get cheap Russian stuff for around 33 cents/round for practice. Granted that's about 60% more than comparable .223 rounds, but in my opinion the enhanced capabilities of the .308 are a worthwhile trade-off.

 

[DBryant]

PTR-32 available at Atlantic Firearms: http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct880.aspx

There is also a version that has a top rail for mounting optics. If it were me, I would probably get that one to leave my options open to more than the HK claw style scope mounts.

Also of interest, Sig is now making their 556 in a 7.62x39 version called the 556R. That might be another gun for you to look into.

 

[click clack]

Ruger Mini 14 or 30 is what i'd go for

 

[Crash_Test_Dhimmi]

Did someone say a superior CQB home defense weapon?

Micro Galil 5.56 SBR

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I think you have the classic decision to make.


Motherland Defense Rifle
WASR = 450 +/-
Magazines = 12.00 ea = 80.00 +/- with shipping
Ammo = .25 / round (In bulk) = 250.00
Misc. stuff to refinish the wood = 50.00
TOTAL = 830.00

VS

Homeland Defense Rifle
AR = 850 +/- (Depending on what you just have to have)
Magazines = 12.00 ea = 120 +/- (You have to get a few more to weed out the good / bad ones)
Ammo = .33 / round (in Bulk) = 330
No stain & varnish required
TOTAL = 1300.00

 

[goon]

Did someone say a superior CQB home defense weapon?

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, nope... No one said that.

I think you have the classic decision to make.


Motherland Defense Rifle
WASR = 450 +/-
Magazines = 12.00 ea = 80.00 +/- with shipping
Ammo = .25 / round (In bulk) = 250.00
Misc. stuff to refinish the wood = 50.00
TOTAL = 830.00

VS

Homeland Defense Rifle
AR = 850 +/- (Depending on what you just have to have)
Magazines = 12.00 ea = 120 +/- (You have to get a few more to weed out the good / bad ones)
Ammo = .33 / round (in Bulk) = 330
No stain & varnish required
TOTAL = 1300.00

I think the decision will most likely exclude AK's. I've had a half dozen of them and just haven't been able to get one to do what I wanted. Most worked but none of them were really all that great and some didn't even run reliably - even the "better" ones.
No offense to the AK fans, but I just haven't been satisfied with them in the past, especially compared to the feeling of putting rounds precisely where I want them with an FAL or AR.

 

[Maverick223]

If you like the 7.62x39mm cartridge, perhaps the VZ.58 should be a consideration. I wouldn't feel undergunned if I were to have to forgo the aforementioned M17S and pick up the VZ.58...it would certainly be my second choice (perhaps the first depending upon the scenario/circumstances). Additionally the M-1 Carbine might be worthy of consideration...after all it already has experience in the field of "homeland defense". The only significant disadvantages being limited range and cartridge availability.

 

[Waywatcher]

After some thought, for a homeland defense rifle, I think you ought to get a rifle that:

• has a 5.56 chamber
• accepts AR15/M16 magazines

 

[Averageman]

Getting it all purchased with the ammo, mags and gear to run it in your price range is going to be difficult.
Any 7.62X51 Auto Rifle that is a relaible platform is quickly going to eat up the bulk of your money even before you get to mags and ammo.
An AR in 5.56 seems to be closer to your price range, even still you will be squeeking to get it all in under budget.
An AK in the 47 or 74 would do it, but you don't like AK's based upon your experiances with them.
I would say save more cash.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I personally am in love with the newer mini-14s (or mini-30s). The newer mini 14s typically will get you 2 MOA (you don't need better despite what we are brainwashed to believe). There aren't as many accessories but that is likely a good thing. Most people IMO waste money on accessories they really don't need and could be better served on spending it on training to be better shooters. I've made only two mods on mine: drilled out/opened up the rear ghost ring so it's a bit bigger, pop riveted a small 2" rail on the stock so I can attach a light. Yes, the magazines are a bit more expensive but with the money you save from the lack of adding on other accessories, you will be ok.

 

[henschman]

With an AR you can always buy a basic rifle with iron sights that is under your budget, and then save your $$ for any accessories you might later want. A rifle, some iron sights, 5-6 mags, a sling, and a cleaning kit will get you shooting, and you can get a good quality rifle plus all that stuff on the OP's stated budget.

 

[coloradokevin]

An AR-15 would be a good choice. I've had a Colt, S&W, and Bushmaster AR-15 myself. My favorites, in order, would be the S&W, Colt, and then the Bushmaster. My S&W MP15T has been a great gun, and has performed better than I expected when I bought it.

Personally, I used to subscribe to the idea that a 20" barrel is better. But, if you are planning to use this rifle primarily for home defense, I'd go with the 16" barrel. People talk about the loss of velocity, and ineffectiveness at long ranges. Do you really foresee a situation where you'll be shooting at bad guys at 500 yards? On the other hand, if you are mainly looking for a fun range gun, you might consider a heavy 20" (or longer) barrel for target accuracy. Incidentally, my 16" barrel S&W shoots great at the 0-200 yard distances I normally use it.

 

[goon]

Thanks for the replies.
The image I kind of have forming in my head is something along the lines of a Bravo Company mid-length with an flat-top upper and a standard front sight base. I'd add a stand alone rear that would have to serve as the primary sight for awhile, maybe a Daniel Defense with A1 style adjustments, and a couple magazines. I'll add a light, more magazines, bulk ammo, and probably optics later - what I'm concerned with right now is largely just the rifle and the stuff to be able to shoot it like henschman said. That is pretty much exactly my "plan" if you can call it that.
As I said, I have other guns now and while this one will eventually be a "primary," it doesn't need to be right away. I have a good .308 that I'll be hanging on to - just want to have another centerfire military style rifle that I can shoot cheaper than .308.

FWIW, it's not so much just home defense use that I'm interested in. Any scenario where I get a shiver in my spine and feel the need to reach for a good rifle... that's what I want this for. But odds are that all it will ever do is be shot for recreation and used to demonstrate the coolness of black rifles to anyone in need of gentle persuasion.

 

[henschman]

I'd say you have an excellent plan, goon. If I were in the market for a carbine, a BCM middy would be at the top of my list. I'd buy just the upper assembly and put together a lower of your choice to put it on, to save money. It is also an educational exercise: you learn how the rifle works and how to swap out those lower assembly parts if you ever need to, yet you avoid all the really hard gunsmithing which is associated with putting together an upper assembly.

 

[Cyborg]

By all means go to an Appleseed weekend. Heck! Pay $20 for a membership and keep going back for free (except for the range fee) until you earn your Rifleman patch. You cannot HELP but learn something - A LOT in fact.

 

[goon]

Tech sights and a full-size stock (maybe a Hogue) for my 10/22 are on my wishlist right now and will be bought before I buy another gun.