LEOs changing their minds about Bush - guess why?

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Those who are still harping on this issue have not listened to and will not listen to or accept the explanation of the actual Bush policy. How many times do you have to explain what is or is not "amnesty", but the same accusations come right back? What counts of late is what Congress will do with the issue. They will never get it right until they end the anchor baby thing.
 
They will never get it right until they end the anchor baby thing.
You're not referring to GWB's (Jeb's son, born in Mexico City) nephew by any chance are you? No, didn't think so.
How did Rome fall again? Outside cultures not assimilating... (plus many other reasons)
 
RealGun...

What Bush is proposing *is* amnesty. You're far too intelligent to deny it. be honest...

Biker
 
There are solutions to the problem of illegals, it's just that they aren't convienent, easy or politicly correct. The most straightforward one is:

1) Lock down the border. Have the national gaurd that are rotating through tech the border patrol how to operate Predators (the UAV). Transfeer ownership to the border patrol, and arm them. Have them patrol the border with those, and don't worry about trying to arrest illigals as they cross. Open fire on them. If the Mexican army has a problem with that and fires back, then you have a constitutional reason to bring thin the US armed forces. Done properly, I would give it 3 weeks, including traing, before the illegal border crossings went down to a trickle.

2) Immediately deport all illegals that are arrested. You don't have to specificly target them, just deport any that are arrested.

3) Check for valid ID at wellfare, ADC, and other "social services" locations. Require proof of US citizenship, or legal immigration status to provide benifits. Deport any illegal who attempts to claim benifits.

4) Provide an amnesty for current illigals on the following conditions:
- They have to have gainful employement or a legal means of
supporting themselves for at least the next two years.
- Any family in the US they wish to claim under thier support
must be listed at that time.
- Anyone found as an illegal after the amnesty is deported. No exceptions.
- Anyone who recieved legal staus under the amnesty has to wait
a minimum of 5 years to apply for citizenship.
- Any illegal who applys under the amnesty is under probation / parol
for 2 years. any violation of that is an automatic deportation.
 
Quaamik, do you realize that #4 is pretty much current SOP for those, "Lawfully admitted for permenant residence"? In some respects, your version is more lenient.

Actually, Bush has done more than any recent president to control the border. Ramping up hiring and training to get another 10,000+ BP agents into the field (unless you can detect entries, you can't stop them), erecting more formidible barriers to entry (ie fencing), and putting National Guard on the border to augment. According to a Tucson, AZ newspaper, entries are down about 40% from what they were last year at this time. With the talk of an amnesty, wouldn't you figure just the opposite or is it that something is being done right?
 
None of this is going to matter after they implement the North American Alliance, which is already signed by Bush with Canada and Mexico.

It is establishing a European Union, which will take care of that pesky Bill of Rights that keeps giving him problems.

The reason they don't secure the borders, is because we are all stupid enough to put up with them telling us we have to have a "North American Alliance" form of government because we can't keep the Mexican illegals out?????

Are we MAD? Why are we letting our Congress fail to call for his impeachment. After all, he has signed an "agreement" that has nothing at its' core but the abolishment of our representative republic. Isn't that kinda against the oath or affirmation he took to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States? Our Constitution is our system of government, not George Bush, and Vicente Fox, and some Knuck Knuck guy named Milton from Canada.

We are crazy to put up with the stuff you can see at: www.spp.gov
 
I posted the LEO article because, for me, it indicates an escalation in what has become a growing fury at Bush's arrogance, which is not going to go away because the rest of the world is also a mess and he's "better" than the Dems. The radical problem with Bush is that he IGNORES THE LAW AND PROFANES THE CONSTITUTION OF THIS NATION. Thankfully, there are still Americans who place our republican form of government, the rule of law, and political liberty above commercial expediency and ethnic favoritism in the guise of misguided "Christian" lovingkindness. Bush is a Jekyll & Hyde who doesn't seem to know from day to day whether he's on a Mission from God or just trolling for votes with the worst sort of pandering.

The impact of Bush's "comprehensive" plan is too momentous in terms of its impact on America to be ignored, and I predict the anger will only mount as we move toward the '08 Election. Will Bush be impeached? Not impossible, though the irony will be that, as with Clinton, it will be for the wrong reason.
 
The far right isn't going to vote for leftists just because certain people are not as conservative as they ought to be.

No, but they just might stay home and say to heck with all politicians. Wonder who might get elected then?

I voted GW both times. I am so completely sickened by the Republicans I don't think I'll ever vote again.

The Democrats and repugnicants are interested only in buying votes, and they don't care who has to pick up the tab.

Oh, and the Libertarians? They want to solve the problem by opening the borders completely. Yeah, right!


arbustoman.gif
 
Biker said:
CD...Bush is responsible, at the moment, for the destruction of the American middle class via the illegal immigration he is aiding such as no president before him, bar none. He is though, the best Presidente that Mexico has ever known.

Those parasites wouldn't even be entering our country if he was doing his job.
Counter *that* statement if you can, and don't bother dancing.

Biker

Biker=> We have had illegal immigration far longer than the current administration... putting all the blame on our current leader gives you a direction for your ire but you need to look elsewhere for blame... your local construction and landscaping companies hire illegals each day... you as mad at them as you are at Bush? "Destruction of the American middle class"? Please! Give me a break... that rhetoric may play well with liberal CNN's Lou Dobbs but has little relevance to reality... the measures Bush has enacted, up to sending the National Guard to the border and hiring more border patrol agents than any other executive, lend to the current administration more accomplishments toward securing the border than any other chief executive...

Securing the border is indeed a national priority but not chiefly the domain of the president... Congress too plays a part... state governors play a part as well... both need to be held to account, in the same way as you are blaiming our chief executive...

Stay away from CNN Biker... you seem to have swallowed their bias and their fiction...

The border is a priority of more than the president; I suggest you investigate who is holding up legislation tightening border policies... it is not the White House!
 
CD...

Art doesn't seem to want me to discuss this issue so I'll refrain from giving a rebuttal, but just for the record, I don't watch television - I get all my new from the internet.:)

Biker
 
What Bush is proposing *is* amnesty. You're far too intelligent to deny it. be honest...

A case in point. Facts and other explanation make no difference. It just wouldn't do to see Bush as anything but wrong.
 
the measures Bush has enacted, up to sending the National Guard to the border and hiring more border patrol agents than any other executive

pla·ce·bo
1. A substance containing no medication and prescribed or given to reinforce a patient's expectation to get well.

2. An inactive substance or preparation used as a control in an experiment or test to determine the effectiveness of a medicinal drug.

3. Something of no intrinsic remedial value that is used to appease or reassure another.

4. (plä-chb) Roman Catholic Church. The service or office of vespers for the dead.

It's by no means a solution because he doesn't want a solution. It's mental masterbation to make people think he's doing something.
 
LEO professional organizations disenchanted...hmmmmm...why does that "news" not knock my socks off?

However, Bush does continue to piss people off on all sides of many issues. The reason why people are "whining" from all sides is because Bush really has succeeded in establishing a unified bipartisan hatred of his policies.

Very well put c yeager. Different times, different reasons but Jimmy Carter all over again.

I don't watch television - I get all my new from the internet

The $64,000 question is where do W and thought leaders in the GOP get their news? Or do they get the news? I would think these LEO orgs have access we here in fly-over country might not. Too late but we'll see.

S-
 
border control

Now, I know that the folks here that are still posting about this subject have firmly established and well defined views concerning immigration, but I would like to make a point in what I perceive to be opposition. It seems to me that there are certain similarities between border control and gun control. In both cases, legislation attempts to deal with a symptom rather than the actual problem.

With gun control, the thought, assuming purity of motive, follows that fewer guns leads to fewer gun crimes. This logic completely ignores other means of violent crime and in so doing removes the guilt from the individual perpetrator, as though without the gun the assailant would otherwise be a model citizen. Politico types usually back this up by exaggerating the decline in gun violence while completely ignoring the drastic increase in other forms of thuggary; Look to the UK or Australia as examples. This is a topic frequently discussed on THR and I typically agree with the consensus, that when a greater portion of the population is involved in the reduction of violent crime by arming themselves, crime goes elsewhere.

While it is a separate issue, I see border control in a similar light. The problem is not immigration. This country was founded on the spirit of immigration. How many here actually had family in America four or five generations ago? The reason we enjoy the freedoms we do is that there is no overwhelming majority. You can preach natural rights all you want but within a democratic-esque system, but anytime there is such an overwhelming majority, you roll with everyone else or you get run over. By way of immigration people with all sorts of backgrounds and cultural upbringings are free to practice their beliefs and the net effect is typically neutral, and by that I mean few laws that dictate behavior (‘morality’ by legislation). The real problem is that there is a substantial portion of these people that refuse to integrate into the American citizenry. Human beings deserve a certain amount of respect and dropping the hammer on anyone for crossing a line in the sand is ridiculous. On the other hand there are those who distain the laws of this country and contribute to the violent crime. My response to that is my CCW.

Rather than shut out (or kill, as suggested above) people for attempting to secure for them selves and families their lives, liberty and pursuits of happiness we should focus on integration. Relax the immigration laws, get a larger portion of them to pay taxes (so they are paying for their children’s education so that they in turn have greater opportunities in life), and actually deport the illegals.

I think the worst thing we can do is continue to support the multi lingual trend on a national level. I’m all for local cultural freedom, but there are certain baseline American ideals, as put forth in the Constitution and it is my opinion that if you want to reap the benefits you need to abide by those. Our constitution acknowledges the rights of minorities by establishing a government that legislates on the principle of very specific non-specificity. The problem with the national Spanish trend is that it creates an artificially strong barrier to integration by amplifying the effect an American subculture has on the rest of the population creating an ‘us vs. them’ mindset and that is my biggest concern.

All in all, as I stated before, immigration is not the problem. I think if people want to be recognized as Mexican, they should stay in Mexico or be made to stay, but if they value freedom and the opportunities America represents, I say the more the merrier, so long as they pay their buck ‘o five like the rest of us.

Sorry for the wicked long post, this started out as a simple idea but I’ve been simmering for a while now and it feels good to boil over. I hope my post is received with some consideration.

-Jon
Long time lurker, first time poster and huge fan of THR
 
Menace? Check your local landscaping or construction firms and find out who they are hiring.... they are the MENACE... leave the president alone!

How many illegal alien employers has the Bush administration prosecuted? I can count them on one hand. That tells you where this Administration is coming from. The law enforcement machinery is there, and the troops are willing--but the Commander won't issue the orders. No wonder the LEOs are fed up.

For five years Bush has played games with America's head and while he's been doing that easily another TEN MILLION illegals have encamped in the U.S. Expect another FIVE MILLION before he's out of office. Yes, this took off under Clinton and Ms. Meissner, but Bush has consciously permitted the wound to open further.
 
The problem with the national Spanish trend is that it creates an artificially strong barrier to integration by amplifying the effect an American subculture has on the rest of the population creating an ‘us vs. them’ mindset and that is my biggest concern.

The problem is that de facto we have NO illegal immigration policy because, again, the laws on the books are not being honored or enforced--and that directive is coming FROM THE TOP. What we have is a pervasive and corrosive atmosphere of lawlessness that is intolerable in a society like ours. Wink at immigration infractions and you open the door to general lawlessness in all areas.

May I add that there is no inherent right of Mexicans and Central Americans to immigrate here because of geographic contiguity or proximity? American citizens are entitled to make their own decisions about who might best contribute to our culture and our nation's future. I think Mexicans have already had way more than their share of import privileges, to be very honest. Even Ted Kennedy, the father of the current insanity, went against the then current percentages of immigrant provenance 40 years ago. How about some "diversity" when it counts?
 
longeyes said:
How many illegal alien employers has the Bush administration prosecuted?

How many did Lincoln prosecute? How many did Eisenhower prosecute? How many did Nixon prosecute? How many did Reagan prosecute? These any many other presidents had their focus on domestic issues interrupted by wars wherein all their attention was focused... I am not making apologee for the Bush Adminsitration but you seem to take him to task exclusively without crediting the border policy he has implimented during our War on Terror focus overseas...

I don't see "prosecuting" illegal aliens as the be-all and end-all way to solve our immigration problem... it would be a good solution to completely screw up our criminal justice system though... can your imagine adding 30 million dockets to local courts? Are you a lawyer by chance? Prosecuting illegal aliens seems to be a defense lawyer's fondest Christmas wish! 30 million new clients!

Here's some rational ideas: Toughen our border, add a small contingent of National Guard to the border, hire hundreds of new border guards, add high-tech surveillance capability to border, and return recent illegal aliens directly to country of origin... Those are the Bush Administration's ideas that have been put to practice...

...or you could complain about Bush... that seems to be the other side!!!
 
Here's some rational ideas: Toughen our border, add a small contingent of National Guard to the border, hire hundreds of new border guards, add high-tech surveillance capability to border, and return recent illegal aliens directly to country of origin... Those are the Bush Administration's ideas that have been put to practice...

...or you could complain about Bush... that seems to be the other side!!!

Right. Now THAT would be a policy, wouldn't it? If only it were real and not largely fantasy. The bottom-line is this: the flood of illegals is not stopping and law enforcement is being told to lay off by the Feds.

You imply Bush is distracted from implementing illegal alien solutions because of a war. Well, in this case dealing with illegal immigration is intrinsically connected to our national security, but, oddly, this appears not to faze our brave Commander-in-Chief. He's tough everywhere but where it counts most: HERE. To most of us it appears he is putting political and commercial expediency above national security, so let's cool it with the he's-embattled-so-above-criticism position.
 
I don't see "prosecuting" illegal aliens as the be-all and end-all way to solve our immigration problem... it would be a good solution to completely screw up our criminal justice system though...

I said illegal alien EMPLOYERS. If Bush wanted to do something substantive he would be prosecuting that class. Of course he is not. Draw your own conclusions about how much this Administration values THE LAW.
 
Yep

It is all Bush's Fault. Before he took office, there was no Illegal Immigration. The world was a happy place full of puppies and milk shakes. Yep, when clinton was in office, the days were filled with sunshine. But when Bush took over, the Illegals poured over the border!! It was horrible.

In case you missed it, this is called Sarcasm........
 
No, not exactly, it's called lame sarcasm. Hailing from Lakewood, CO, I'd think you'd have grasped the illegal alien problem by now. Maybe you're one of those employers we're talking about?

I think we all know that illegal immigration has been on the rise for at least 20 years, back to the Reagan amnesty and before. The floodgates were opened by Clinton and his henchwoman Doris Meissner, I've already noted that. But Bush has flagrantly, and in defiance of the popular will, flouted the laws that we have and his Constitutional responsibilities. He is the man in office now and he has the power to do something. He won't.

Frankly, I consider Clinton and Bush to be brothers under the skin, obedient to the same malign powers that rule this sublunary realm.
 
longeyes... inasmuch as your "Bush-Bad" rant on immigration is concerned, you may wish to save some venom for the illegal aliens themselves... you seem to hold our Chief Executive 100% deserving of blame, and none at all to the illegal aliens who defy our existing law... they are, after all, the problem.
 
CD...

In as much as Bush has the power to *stop* this invasion and should in fact quit encouraging it which he refuses to do, he is the one ultimately responsble at this time. Where does the buck stop?

Biker
 
I agree

I am mad as heck about Illegals and personally believe they should mine the border. I agree that Bush has not done anything to stop them. I also believe that none of our congress critters have done a thing about it either. Clinton didn't do anything about it. No one wants to do anything about it. The problem I see is, all the Bush-bashers have to trot out and just bash Bush.... It isn't only his fault, lets see some indignation against everyone involved, including the scum trotting across the border.

Oh, and Mining the border is a very specific statement. Mining is used to practice area denial and I wholly support that. If some wad of humanity is stupid enough to walk into it, then the gene pool is cleaned up a bit.
 
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