Simple question: Is it really worth it to have a laser on a pistol?

Like any tool lasers take training & practice.

IMHO they are an aid when it comes to shooters with vision issues or not shooting from a full presentation due to an awkward position due to cover etc. What I see a lot of folks do that slows them down quite a bit is trying to use the laser and their sights simultaneously, or they chase the dot looking for the "perfect" shot when it's not going to happen.

I have one laser equipped pistol, it's my dedicated nightstand gun for those times I might leave my glasses behind. I look at it as a "secondary" sighting system for when I can't see the irons. To practice, I run the same basic drills I do with my iron sights, but ignore the irons completely. My times are slower with the laser, but my accuracy is much better than not wearing my glasses........I also "co=witness" my laser to be at the top of my irons at 7 yards, which gives me good hits out to the longest distance in my house.

For training I prefer a Laser cartridge that show's a momentary dot when the pistol is "fired". Between that and a shot timer set on a par time I have some pretty effective dry fire sessions.

Chuck

I really like lasers. They add a completely different way to accurately aim, enhancing one's ability to hit what you want. Useful in some, not all, situations and all but essential in others. One more tool. Never a liability.

I think its worth it for a HD or duty pistol (not concealed carry) when the laser is incorporated into a light, such as the M6.

I have a couple of handguns with a CT laser. Not the primary sighting system for me but I do like them as a back up in certain situations. For me, it makes the most sense on a small J frame snub nose, as I can shoot that small gun better with the laser than with the iron sights.

W.E.G. said:

I have no use for a laser on a defensive handgun.

If you can't hit it by simply pointing and shooting fast, you are probably going to get shot first, or miss in a defensive handgun situation.

The carefully-aimed, deliberate shot in a defensive handgun situation is a unicorn.

Gimmicks for shooting higher scores in pistol mini-golf are a whole other thing.

Click to expand...

That sounds like a bunch of made up stuff, and really bad advice for anyone trying to learn. Any references to studies we can read? I'd be particularly interested in the data on the unicorn deliberate aimed shots not being a viable defense option. How many gunfights have you won? I'm thinking you aren't very good at IDPA or IPSC pistol since you are so dismissive of them, or perhaps haven't tried them?

Lot's of people don't like anything new, lasers, red dots, scopes, gps, cell phones... but that doesn't make them any less useful. There are many circumstances when a laser is useful, for example when you are behind cover and can't get a good aiming sight line to the target, because you don't want to stick your head all the way out and get it shot off. In my house my longest shot is going to be 36', 12 yards exactly, and even with 53 years of shooting experience ( I was shooting Junior NRA when I was 8) I can honestly say my point shooting ability at night at 12 yards isn't very good. But my Springfield XD 5" with laser and night sights will easily make the shot, very quickly at that. But alas, as with anything else, if you want to be faster and more accurate you have to practice with the tool.

And yes, I shoot pistol mini-golf as the uniformed call it, IDPA to everyone else. And I've shot and indoor reduced light course with and without a laser, and I was consistently faster and more accurate with the laser.

I don't have any theoretical problems with laser sights. In theory they a great idea.

I do have an empirical problem with them.

As much as I try not to, I end up noticing other shooters at public ranges and how well they are shooting. It is none of my business and I should be concentrating on my own shooting, but I can't help myself. This limited observation has led me to some broad conclusions which are by no means necessarily true, but they are generally true for the people who tend to be present at the times/places I shoot.

My general observation is that people who have laser sights often have basic marksmanship issues. I don't think lasers cause poor marksmanship, but I suspect that people who have marksmanship issues sometimes choose to install laser sights rather than working on their skills.

The extreme case was guy with a laser sight aiming so wildly that some of the hits were on my target, the next lane over. It wasn't that he picked the wrong target, it was that his pattern was about 10' wide at 7 yards. I don't think the laser was the cause of his issues, but i do think he would have been better spending his money on ammo, or lessons, or maybe glasses.

While I'm not a fan of lasers, they do have their place. I watch shooters with lasers, and often times it seems like the place the laser on the target, and jerk the trigger for all it's worth. Its almost as if they expect the laser to lock the gun on point. No, trigger control is super important, especially with a laser.

AFAIC, lasers do have a place on a defensive firearm, especially for us older(optically challenged) guys. For one, they are a great training aid in practicing trigger pull to see how much, if any, you are pulling the gun off target when squeezing it. Secondly, in dim or subdued lighting they can be a great aid to those of us with less than perfect sight(especially when I don't have my glasses on. Thirdly, they do allow quick accurate round placement, even if the firearm is not raised to normal eye level. Quick, accurate "hip" shots are easily made. Hard to do that with any other sighting method.

FWIW, the CT laser grips are the best solution as they come on automatically when you normally grip the firearm and don't add enough weight or bulk to make holstering anymore difficult than without. Battery life is a non-issue and they'll send you new ones for free each year if you ask. I have a number of the red ones, and will spring for green ones in future, just because they are even more visible in bright light.

The only situation I can really think of is if an attacker has knocked you backward over a piece of furniture in your home (likely in the dark). That attacker will very likely press the attack immediately. If there is a piece of furniture partially blocking you from the attacker, you could possibly be aiming in an awkward position, possibly not on your feet. It seems unlikely though.

I suppose if you were drawing a gun and your attacker managed to get a hand on the gun or your gun arm, you could be trying to turn the gun and shoot at point blank range. Though, this seems a little too Hollywood to me. I guess having a dot show you where the muzzle is pointed may help?..........maybe?....... I guess......... Ok, I'm not buying it either.

Click to expand...

And the problem with both of those is, while neither is exactly unlikely -- certainly, struggling for the gun with an assailant who's on you is pretty likely -- neither is a situation where you'd be likely to take the time, or have the time, to find the laser dot and get it onto your attacker before firing.

springer99 said:

spring for green ones in future, just because they are even more visible in bright light.

Click to expand...

Green seems the best choice from what i have seen at the club.

To some, its a cool factor? Seen one AR with 3 sighting devices, iron sights, scope and laser.
I guess you can't have to many??

Good points Springer.
CT lasers do not require any thought or effort to turn on. Grip your gun and it is on.

Finding the red dot is easy too, look where your gun is pointing. Most people will even be able to see it without their glasses.

AFAIC, lasers do have a place on a defensive firearm, especially for us older(optically challenged) guys. For one, they are a great training aid in practicing trigger pull to see how much, if any, you are pulling the gun off target when squeezing it.

Click to expand...

Sure, and that practice issue is potentially useful if you're actually going to do the dryfire practice and drills such a device could help you with. A lot of folks don't spend very much time doing that, though. And it isn't like a laser is necessary to do those drills, just a useful aid to them.

Secondly, in dim or subdued lighting they can be a great aid to those of us with less than perfect sight(especially when I don't have my glasses on.

Click to expand...

I can see (ha!) that argument, though in my case I'm near-sighted, so without my glasses the front sight IS the thing I can see, which is perfect. If you're far-sighted, though and can't get your glasses on, the gun may be pretty blurry.

Thirdly, they do allow quick accurate round placement, even if the firearm is not raised to normal eye level. Quick, accurate "hip" shots are easily made. Hard to do that with any other sighting method.

Click to expand...

Now this one I take issue with, because I find that MOST shooters haven't really ever quantified this. How quick is a quick, accurate, "hip" shot? And how quick is it compared to any other swift shot you might take in response to a threat? Comparing the time it takes to fire an AIMED hip shot to a body-index shot from some retention position, or to an aimed shot from a normal stance, what is the benefit of choosing to perform the hip shot?

I certainly do understand the concepts of a "speed rock" or hip shot, where the gun is fired immediately after being withdrawn from the holster and rotated toward the target (at VERY close targets, to be sure), but those aren't anything like an aimed shot where you're taking the time to located a laser dot on the target.

In other words, from the viewpoint of fighting with a firearm, shooting from the hip has no need of aiming, and if you have time to aim you have time to bring the gun into your line of sight.

By way of background, I score in the 850's (out of 900) shooting bullseye with a red dot. That's not going to win any matches, but it's not at the back of the pack either. Prior to getting old, I could do that with iron sights as well, and thought lasers were a gimmick.

Then presbyopia happened. I still have 20/20 distance (say, over 7 or 8 feet) vision, but the front sight - heck, the whole pistol - is a blur. I'm slowly, imprecisely, trying to place the fuzzy blob that is the front sight roughly in line with the fuzzy blobs that are the rear sight. At the range I can put on cheaters, but since I don't routinely wear glasses, in an emergency I'm unlikely to be wearing glasses.

Enter laser grips. They aren't perfect - in bright light they are invisible (although in bright light your pupils contract, and you can see the sights a little better). But they don't really have any downsides. I sight mine in just low/left at 25 yards (by waiting for a cloudy day ), so they are within a couple of inches until the bullet starts to drop, which includes most reasonable defensive ranges. I usually practice with them switched off. My drill is to not expect them to work, but if I draw and see the dot, yay, shoot the dot.

At close ranges, you don't need the laser, or sights for that matter. At longer ranges - 20 plus yards, say, in lighting conditions where you can see the laser, they substantially improve my accuracy in those limited circumstances, and don't hurt my accuracy in other situations, so I like them.

They won't help other flaws in your marksmanship - if you have a bad grip or trigger pull or whatever - but they can compensate for presbyopia, in the circumstances where they work.

(To the OP: I have both red and green. I'm completely willing to believe that green will show up farther than red, but personally am not sure I care which color I have. Either color is easily visible out to self defense ranges at night, and generally indoors all the time, but neither, IMHO, is very useful outside during the day. There may be cloudy days or a few minutes at dawn/dusk where green is noticeably better, but in my casual experimentation 98.44% of the time either both work or neither works)

I know a lot of you guys don't like to take the time to watch videos, but this guy makes a reasonable argument for having a laser on your gun and has some pretty cool demonstrations:



Rob Pincus also demonstrates some good use of a laser in a few of his videos, for example these two:

I'm sure there is a more useless pistol accessory out there; I'm just not sure what it is.

My recommendation for anyone considering the OP's original question is that you try one for yourself and make your own decision. I've had various night sights on different guns but I find a green laser to be so far ahead of night sights for low light conditions such as around my home at night, I'd sell a gun if I had to in order to buy a green laser for my HD handgun. The laser haters can hate them all they like, but after trying just about everything over my 50 years of shooting, my HD handgun WILL have a green laser. The primary reasons are:

- no flashlight is needed in order to see the target (due to the brightness of the green laser)

- my quick-shot accuracy in low light conditions is much better than with night sights

- most importantly, the laser allows me to keep my eyes 100% on the target and what the target is doing while I maintain a precise point of aim. This latter would allow me to make the best decision possible on what will likely be the most important decision of the rest of my life; whether or not it's 100% necessary to pull the trigger.

My setup, on a gun sized to suite the wife also. And speaking of the wife or others who might not be highly proficient with a handgun and open sights, I've found a laser to be waaay better.

It's purely subjective.

For me, it wouldn't be. Other people love them. You should try one and see.

What a laser is really, really good for is dry fire to practice trigger control. Think the gun doesn't move when you pull the trigger? Here ya go.

I have a Crimson Trace grip "Green" on my 1911 .38 Super. It has an on off switch. I can choose to reserve it as a back up alterative sighting system. If the light is an issue or damaged fixed sights fail? The Green laser is a standby system.

Some of you guys who think you will always be able to achieve an accurate sight picture as quickly or more quickly than you can align a laser, regardless of lighting conditions, might change your minds once you turn 60. Some of us old farts have enough difficulty doing so in bright daylight.

My Crimson trace is garbage. If all lasers are that dim then all they do is slow you down. Looking for the laser light is not the quick way to acquire the target.

Casefull said:

My Crimson trace is garbage. If all lasers are that dim then all they do is slow you down. Looking for the laser light is not the quick way to acquire the target.

Click to expand...

They are not dim. Clean the lens, change the battery, if neither helps contact CT.

The Crimson Trace Green is a $369 dollar system. If mine was failing it would be returned to the company. They have a reliable customer service. The Crimson Green is very sharp and reliable on a target. They draw more power than the Red. Crimson offers free batteries for these lasers each year you own it.