Lasers on pistols. Good? Not good? your thoughts?

[springer99]

Recently added CT lazer to my carry gun and have to say that it's a great addition. It's important to train, using both the iron sights and the lazer, but having the lazer for low light, night usage makes me so much more comfortable. IMO, it's pretty hard to aim with the pistol at waist height, or with your arm bend around a corner, etc. Lazers make this a non-issue.

Can't say they'd have much purpose on anything but a night-stand or small carry gun, but in those instances it's the only way to go.

 

[Sky]

Hello. I'm new on here. I'd like to ask folks if yall prefer to have lasers mounted on your pistols? If so, what kind? What color (Green or red). Does it really help you or is it just more for the asthetics? Does it make you complacent and rely on the laser instead of using the sights?

IMO the only thing my Crimson Trace red laser (equipped 1911) is great for night stand defense with the lights off.

I did not read all the responses but I am sure others have pointed out the laser thing is just about useless at range or in bright light. Although a dark night and 30/50?? yards for me is very doable, so yes they have there duty stations/situations.

Night time and house duty (if the laser is zeroed properly) then where the dot is will be where the pill will go...simple and can be seen rather nicely.

Who knows maybe a laser would scare an unarmed thief in the night or maybe get you killed when activated if the BG is serious? Something to think about.

 

[BADUNAME37]

If the red laser stops just one bad guy from being killed, it is worth having it.

 

[tarosean]

One thing I havent seen mentioned.
While everyone and their mom is producing a weapon with a Rail these days. Wasnt it Glock who came out and said there are issues mounting Streamlights to the Rails of their 22 and 23's? inducing FTF's etc. I would assume this could be an issue for some manufactures whos guns were not designed to handle the extra weight in the front yet still have a rail slapped on since its the current fad.

At any rate when adding something to your weapon ensure that it still retains its functionality 100%, cause a gun that dont function with the laser its just a laser pointer, and you can buy those for a couple bucks.

Course disregard if your talking about the laser grip...

 

[Sam1911]

And you can focus on the target, not on the front sight.

WHY would anyone do this? This is teaching the exact opposite of good pistol shooting. If you are saying do this sometimes, why are you trying to train yourself to do two different things?

Front Sight, Press -- Front Sight, Press

To those who say it's hard to pick up the dot: Where are you looking? The dot falls where the weapon is pointing! Close to where the sights are lined up, if you happen to be looking down the sights. And if you're practicing good gun handling, it's stock-still, not "bouncing" around!

I watch people at the range using lasers and they are literally NOT looking at the pistol. They are looking at the target and waving the pistol around like a laser pointer trying to see that dot show up on the target.

If the practice is to present the gun correctly (4-count draw) press it out and see your front sight on the target -- then voilà! There's the red dot on target, too. But you've already got to BE on target for that dot to appear there. At that point it is redundant and (to me) distracting.

In practice, what I see is shooters drawing the gun, peering PAST it, and looking for that dot, making adjustments with the gun to put the dot where they want it and then trying to hold it still while they press the trigger. Usually (in the case of some shooters I know well) they could have already landed at least two shots with their iron sights before they get the dot just where they want it.

And if you're practicing good gun handling, it's stock-still, not "bouncing" around!

This sounds like slow-fire bullseye shooting. Not like any defensive or "practical" shooting I've ever seen or done. Secondly, defensive shooting isn't about ONE shot, but about putting as many accurate shots on target as possible, as quickly as possible. For a good shooter this can approach 5 aimed shots per second. No, your dot is NOT sitting "stock-still" while you're pistol is recoiling every 0.2 seconds. You absolutely, positively, 100% guaranteed, cannot track a laser sight dot at rapid fire speeds. It cannot be done. Watching someone TRY is painful. Like watching a dog try to run with two legs tied together.

However, you absolutely CAN track your fixed front sight that fast, as many of us demonstrate every time we hit the range for training or competition.

 

[Lawdawg45]

For me, they have a very limited application and the probability of them becoming a crutch is very real, plus our department (and many others) don't allow them.

LD

 

[45_auto]

My experience from running pistol matches over the last 20 years:

1) Mount your laser on your pistol.

2) Go to any small local IPSC or IDPA match where they'll let you use your laser. We don't care what you're using, just come out and shoot. Your score may not count for prizes, but at least you'll be able to see how you compare.

3) Make the discovery that 99.99% of the time your sights are NOT on the target when you bring the pistol up (this is why point shooting only works at short ranges).

3) Make the discovery that the people with iron sights or a holographic red dot mounted on the pistol can see that their point of aim is slightly to one side of the target, move the pistol in the correct direction to get them on target, and fire immiediately.

4) Make the discovery that you're looking for your laser dot on the target and it's not there. You have no idea which way to move the pistol. Wave the pistol around until the dot appears on target and make the shot, much slower than anyone else.

5) Make the discovery that the quickest way to get the dot onto the target is to look at the sights . Figure out that if you're looking at the sights anyway, you might as well pull the trigger when the sights are on target.

 

[Lawdawg45]

One thing I havent seen mentioned.
While everyone and their mom is producing a weapon with a Rail these days. Wasnt it Glock who came out and said there are issues mounting Streamlights to the Rails of their 22 and 23's? inducing FTF's etc. I would assume this could be an issue for some manufactures whos guns were not designed to handle the extra weight in the front yet still have a rail slapped on since its the current fad.

At any rate when adding something to your weapon ensure that it still retains its functionality 100%, cause a gun that dont function with the laser its just a laser pointer, and you can buy those for a couple bucks.

Course disregard if your talking about the laser grip...

Yes, with the Gen 4's!

LD

 

[Sam1911]

IMO, it's pretty hard to aim with the pistol at waist height, or with your arm bend around a corner, etc. Lazers make this a non-issue.

This sounds like a winning endorsement for a laser sight, at first. But really, how practical is all of that?

I practice shooting from retention ("hip" shooting some still call it) regularly, at distances where that is of practical value. At those distances your body index is good enough to put the shots where they need to go (especially with practice) and you DO NOT have time to get a laser pointer lined up anyway. This is a second or so out of the holster and two shots on target. If I am anything over 3 yards away, I'm bringing the gun up to at least position 3 of the draw, and probably going to full extension, so I have the silhouette of the gun AND my sights in front of me when I break the shot.

Remember the "Collateral" scene? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ) Tom Cruise is going fairly slowly compared to most trained shooters, but his technique is not bad. Two shots from retention, three from full extention. Where is there time for him to see a laser dot? He couldn't have. He doesn't have time, even at not quite full speed.

And under what circumstances are you working a corner with your arm "bend around a corner?" That's not the right way to work a corner at all! Where is your head, if your arm is bent around the corner? How would you even SEE the dot? And why are you crowding cover like that? Back off the cover and pie the corner correctly and you'll be able to see your sights just fine.

 

[Rinspeed]

It's a technological advantage that can't hurt but can really help. That's why they are banned in all the shooting competitions, they are faster and more accurate than iron sights. I have pistols with and without, but my HD gun and car gun have them.

I don't see it that way at all.

 

[X-Rap]

Distance, low light and time is the only place I can see a laser shining over open sights (very limited use). I still am not convinced that a very small red dot/holograph wouldn't be helpful but I haven't tried one yet.
I am with Sam on the speed accuracy achievable up close with open sights over a laser.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Back in my younger years, I tried a laser sight on one of my pistols. It was simple and easy to use. And, of course, it was "cool" and would certainly dramatically increase my accuracy, right?

Wrong.

My experience with it fully supports Sam1911's assertations...they slow you down, distract you from holding a proper target sight, and lead to much poorer performance in accuracy on the range.

Totally unexpected, given what we're lead to believe about them.

I'm a darned good shot with my weapons. Not competition level, because that's not what I've trained for, but darned good nonetheless. So I was extremely disappointed with my experience with a laser sight.

I'm sure they have their practical uses under certain conditions. Sam1911 brought up a few good ones. But for general use, especially on pistols, they are not what they are cracked up to be through advertising hype...and most certainly not through the entertainment media.

But do NOT expect them to turn your shooting skills into Robocop level accuracy. Not gonna happen.

If you want to buy one and install it on one of your weapons, by all means have at it. But do it with the expectation that you are going to learn to use it as a tool to develope your shooting skills...not magically turn you into a master sniper.

 

[barneyrw]

The thing about laser sights is that they are there when a situation arises where they may be needed, but don't have to be used if you don't want to. Sort of the best of both worlds.

 

[barneyrw]

<<"Most civilians dont have access to armories, to repair and replace as needed.">>

Yeah we do. Gun shops all over this country. Besides good one are very reliable.

 

[Skribs]

The thing about laser sights is that they are there when a situation arises where they may be needed, but don't have to be used if you don't want to. Sort of the best of both worlds.

This makes it sound like there's no disadvantage. I don't want to drop the money on CT grips and batteries just in case I find a need for it in the future (especially if I'm not training to use it). I don't want the extra bulk of a rail-mounted laser on my pistol if I'm carrying and don't see likely need for it, and would prefer to just have a WML instead of a light+laser combo (simplicity of operation, wont hit the wrong one by accident).

 

[Cosmoline]

To those who say it's hard to pick up the dot: Where are you looking? The dot falls where the weapon is pointing!

I've tried the CT at 10 yards with the LCR and an SP-101 and found the dot to be very difficult to find on the target. At 15 yards it's impossible for me. The thing is just too small, and unless it's twilight or dark it won't show up. Maybe my eyes are just too old.

If the red laser stops just one bad guy from being killed, it is worth having it

I've heard this, but it strikes me as somewhat dicey. If you're giving the bad guy a chance to look at his chest, you've either waited too long to shoot or you're not really in a situation calling for the brandishing in the first place. LEO's are different of course. They can aim at people without any real intention of shooting, and without having to show imminent deadly threat. And even there I don't think using the red spot as a deterrent has been generally accepted.

 

[Sam1911]

The primary (and I believe ONLY) reason they aren't allowed in competition is because of the added weight at the muzzle. Same reason mounted white lights aren't allowed. All guns have to make weight maximums, of course, but the idea behind IDPA (and most of the divisions of USPSA) was not to be an equipment race. Allow folks to hang things off the front of the gun and some will do so as a muzzle weight to tame recoil, which will mean that many folks will believe they need to weight the muzzle of their pistol with the heaviest attachment (white light or laser) they can find.

Obviously this doesn't apply to the CT grips, and is somewhat the opposite direction from what most of the light and laser manufacturers are aiming for (light weight and compact size). But that's the reason for the rule.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Perhaps when they get a tunable, multi-megawatt Free Electron Laser in a pistol package, I'll consider getting another laser...



I have absolutely no idea where the laser for my pistol is. If I did, I'd give it to you so you wouldn't waste your own money on one just to find out it's not what you thought it would be. I haven't a clue where it is, though...

 

[MCgunner]

I think they could be useful to cops entering a dark house or something. Personally, I point shoot pretty well at across the room distances and use my daily carry, a pocket gun, for all defense except for my coach gun under the bed. I bought a cheap laser once, was unimpressed. It wound up on an SKS which might come in handy when we get moved to the boonies. Never know when I'll wanna take on a hog in the yard at night. I don't care for lasers on pocket guns, but hey, they make some pretty compact ones now days if you think you need one. The Armalasers have almost won me over a couple of times with the ones they offer for the Kel Tecs.

 

[Skribs]

MC, I think a light would serve the cop better than a laser. At house distances, the light will get pretty close if point shooting.

 

[liberty -r- death]

Light travels both directions. I choose not to use a laser because it can give away your position, and irons sights don't need batteries.

 

[lloveless]

Entering a darkened house with laser on merely shows the perp where you are.
ll

 

[MCgunner]

MC, I think a light would serve the cop better than a laser. At house distances, the light will get pretty close if point shooting.

True enough.

Light travels both directions. I choose not to use a laser because it can give away your position, and irons sights don't need batteries.

And for this reason, I'd rather hand hold my flashlight, put it out around the corner and flash it to identify the target without him identifying ME, only my flashlight's position. Getting hit in the hand is bad enough.

 

[kcshooter]

If I was on an entry team and was shooting from around the side of a ballistic shield, I could see the use.
I'm not.


They aren't faster, they aren't more accurate, they aren't intimidating, and they aren't practical.

 

[Skribs]

And for this reason, I'd rather hand hold my flashlight, put it out around the corner and flash it to identify the target without him identifying ME, only my flashlight's position. Getting hit in the hand is bad enough.

You still have to peek around the corner to see him. He may only see your flashlight, he may not. If you have the light mounted on your gun (I almost said "gun mounted on your light", which gave me the idea to add a picatinny rail to a flashlight to make a few bucks) you can fire back.