Stepping up to a progressive press

Full progressive with case feeder? Hornady LnL or Dillon 650. I dont consider the Lee to be a contender. The RCBS is kind of an outlier, started out a little rocky, has a few issues that RCBS either has worked out, or will work out. Figure $800+ for the press and case feeder.

If you want to do nothing but run high production, the Dillon is the best route. If you want to short run and do some load dev, the LnL is a better option. Neither of them are perfect.

Queue a semi-religious debate. . . but I'm quite happy with my Hornady LNL, and with Hornady's tech support (it's almost as good as RCBS).

The 650 is designed around the brass feeder, so it's a requirement for that press to run smoothly. The LNL-AP can be run with or without. Brass is feed on the left side and ejects on the left side. Your right hand/arm will mainly be running the one arm bandit. It's pretty easy to do 300/hr once you get into a rythem. With the brass feeder your looking at 500-600/hr.

With the Dillon you will have tool heads preset and will be moving the powder dispenser between heads. It seams most don't like moving the dispenser and put one on every head. With the LNL bushing system you can run all or just 1 die at a time. Makes it easier to learn and setup a machine with only one function happening at at time. Then add them in as you get more comfortable till your in full AP.

I switched from the LnL to the xl650 about 3 months ago. I feel the 650 is a better machine and faster than the LnL. That being said the LnL will be a lot cheaper and easier doing all of the caliber changes you are talking about. Like Kaldor said the dillon is not for doing Load development

I load multiple cartridges on the LNL-AP. Never owned a Dillon but several friends do (and love them) and I’ve spent a little time loading on a friend’s 650.

Hoopjj said it pretty well. There are a couple of features on the Hornady that I like more than their Dillon counterparts but they are not deal breakers.

If you are comparing cost be sure to factor in a casefeeder as well as the press.

I have loaded 9 years on my LnL. I have loaded well over 100k rounds and have had no complaints. Hornady was great the time or two I called and sent free parts a time or two. I paid 390 bucks for the press and got 1k free bullets. I think I got alot for my money.

preacherJohn wrote:
...but when I see people pumping out close to 800 rounds an hour and it takes me one hour to load 100, it's time to start thinking about stepping up.

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Pardon me, but with your screen name, I couldn't resist a couple of biblical paraphrases, "Get thee behind me, Dillon" (from Mk. 8:33) and "A man's life consists not in the spreed of his reloading equipment" (from Lk. 12:15).

I've been a single-stage guy for 38+ years. That said, I understand the desire to get a progressive to save some time and let you get to the range faster. And in that respect, I have never encountered anyone who - after they got over paying the invoice - regretted buying a Dillon 650. I don't know anyone that has the Hornady, so I can't say anything about it one way or the other.

I shoot with 7 other guys. Out of the eight of us, 6 reload 2 on a Dillon, 2 on a Hornady, 1 on Lee loadmasters, and 1 on a Rockchunker. Well, twice a year we have a 3-day family shoot. One on Memorial day weekend and one on Labor day weekend. This labor day we had a press challenge against Dillon and Hornady. The non-reloaders were out of the challenge, the Dillon reloaders were out and the Hornady reloaders were out. So I set up a Dillon and a Hornady and we had two folks do the reloading. The first test was stand-alone press. Each reloader ran 2 separate runs of 100 rounds on each press. Both reloaded faster on the Hornady by a long shot. So easily Hornady was the winner and the cost of the press win for Hornady.

Now, the next test was with the press and case feeder. One was faster on the Dillon and one was faster on the Hornady. But when we added the total times up they were exactly the same. So that was a wash. But cost Hornady was the winner.

Now, the next test was only ran by the Hornady because it has a bullet feeder. Dillon Does not make a bullet feeder. But the time was 20% faster. Win Hornady. Cost winner Dillon.

Now for the surprise When asked witch press the liked better with the case feeder both said, Dillon. The reason "it just felt better". But both liked the Hornady Ammo-plant the best. When asked a hypothetical question "If your house burned down and the insurance company would buy any press you wanted what would you get" Both said they would get what they currently own.

So here is my recommendation on which press to get....????

My first press was a Dillon 550 and I never regretted buying it, I use it to load all my semi-auto handgun rounds, which my wife and I shoot the most. I've never bothered to get the case feeder for it, the most I have loaded at any one time has been about 500 rounds. I generally get about 400-450 rounds per hour, but I am never trying to rush. (Just FYI, I also have a Lee Classic Turret on the other end of the bench that I use for my revolver and rifle rounds (low quantity production). I have probably a dozen turrets loaded with different calibers.)

Comparing the 550 and 650, the 650 has 5 stations instead of 4, so adding a bullet feeder, or a powder cop, is an option. The 650 also has auto-index where the 550 is manually indexed. I've never seen the lack of auto-index to be a problem for me, personally. While both the 550 and 650 have case feeder options, the 650 case feeder can handle rifle brass, while the 550 case feeder is limited to pistol brass. The 550 can load rifle rounds, just not with a case feeder.

Another Dillon option is the Square Deal press, it only does pistol rounds but does have auto-index. The big negative for it is that it only uses proprietary Dillon dies, but the plus is that the dies come with the caliber conversion kit, so setting the press up for a new caliber is actually pretty cost effective.

If money were no object, the 1050 is an awesome press, but costs a small fortune, caliber conversions are expensive, and warranty is only 1 year as it is considered a commercial machine.

I can't speak for a Hornady progressive, as I have never used one, but I do know someone that has the Hornady and loves it.

If 800 rounds/hour is the target you're aiming at, either the LnL or 650 will do the job. You will need a case feeder to hit those number. I think once you add that to the LnL, the price difference becomes less of a thing. Free bullets are still good though, if what they offer floats your boat. Differences between the two are pretty much a personal thing and you'll find quirks with both of them. Warranty service/support, should you need it, seems to be pretty good today for either Mfg.

I went with the LnL, mostly for the cost savings, and the ability to shop for add-ons and options from numerous sources. Dillon is mostly a one point of purchase thing.

I have the Hornady and love it. I reload several different calibers and the Hornady is easy to change over. I don't like it for large caliber rifle rounds ( any thing over 223 cal.) The press just dosen't feel solid enough and seems to flex. It might be my bench. I have never used a Dillion and would look at one if my Honady dies.I don't use the bullet feeder or the brass feeder and have no trouble loading 200 to 300 hundred rounds an hour. For the cost I don't think you can beat a Horady.

I have loaded 100 rounds in under 4 minutes on a Lee Loadmaster I set up and have done the same with Dillon's, so any can meet your goal (tripling your 100/hr) of 300 rounds an hour with room to spare.

With pistol rounds being all I see in your OP, an SD would also cover it, although at their price point, these days, it wouldn't be my chioce, I can load 100 on the ones I have in under 10 minutes.

I never had all of the problems I see with the LNL, with the ones I owned and most all of them can be overcome and you don't have to be as mechanically inclined to get them to work as the Lee, as long as you skip the case feed.

Their are fans of the RCBS Pro 2000 if you like other green machines. Some folks really like the APS strips. I'll admit to not using mine much other than building a case feeder for it though. I haven't seen enough glowing reviews of the chucker 5 & 7 yet to try one.

I have at least one of all the Dillon's and can say there is a reason they have the reputation as the best machines. That reputation also follows them throughout the years, all of my Dillon's, I could now sell for more than they cost new, some I have had the longest are worth more than twice what I paid for them. You would have to talk about older no longer available presses like Stars to be able to say the same about them.

There is no wrong choice, there are many of us that have bought various machines then stuck with the ones we liked best and others that just get what they can afford or want to spend and make it work for them.

That's the only difference. The ammo plant has the brass and bullet feeder with all the addons.

I stepped up from the Hornady LnL AP to the Dillon XL650. The 650 is a much better press. It “feels better” because quality “feels better”. You buy the cheaper press and you get the “cheaper press”.

This thread was going very orderly till you stepped in. So I will add some more info on the 650. A problem that's been existence since it was released and has not been fixed yet. Setting off primers in the fill tube. You would think after 4 decades they could fix this problem. Either they don't think it s a problem are there is not an easy fix without redesigning there machine. As with anything mechanical things can get out of adj and wear. So maintenance needs to happen. Normally this should never happen. It only happens when this plastic part get worn and the operator TRYS to force it.

Hornady on the on the hand , is constantly upgrading there machine to correct troubling problems. The machine I bought in 2003 has gone through many improvements since it's release.

I will say Dillon 650 is a very good machine and I would have bought one if it was for this issue. And at the time I was not looking to use a brass feeder. So the LNL-AP was a better machine for my usage.

Bang! said:

I stepped up from the Hornady LnL AP to the Dillon XL650. The 650 is a much better press. It “feels better” because quality “feels better”. You buy the cheaper press and you get the “cheaper press”.

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You do know that both Dillon and Hornady will rebuild your press, right? Have you ever heard of someone sending in there Hornady for a rebuild? Now, I have heard of many sending in there Dillon in because "it was just plain worn out". Do you think that maybe Dillon wouldn't have this problem if the press had a little less pot metal and plastic on it?

Now I am glad that you like your Dillon. It is a great press and probably perfect for you. But better than a Hornady? I don't think so.

I see this thread is on the verge of being locked...they always invariably turn into a pissing match.

OP. Buy whichever goes with your decor the best. Both will serve you well for many many years.

One point on the Ammo Plant, which is the LNL-AP bundled with the casefeeder and bullet feeder. The bullet feeder is not suitable for use with lead bullets. As a cowboy action shooter (SASS rules mandate the use of lead bullets) that means the bullet feeder adds little value for me.

Also the bullet feeder takes up a station that I would prefer to use for my RCBS Lockout Die.

Not everyone needs a casefeeder but I have found it to be worth the cost. I do like Dillon’s casefeeder better than Hornady’s.