Interesting 'study', .32 ACP and .380 ACP beating out .357 Mag and .44 Mag in one shot stops.
Actually I think the key word is ".Incapacitation"
What similar studies?And it is a very interesting study. I have believed the same for years and have seen similar studies.
Seems like the 'study' had a caveat per category (for 9mm from including FMJ, one for revolvers vs semi-autos, one for .25, .32 and .44 Mag and so on).It did mention that the 32.cal and 25.cal were not in the same category as the 380 and above and best to avoid them.
"I really would have liked to break it down by individual bullet type, but I didn't have enough data points to reach a level of statistical significance. Getting accurate data on nearly 1800 shootings was hard work. I couldn't imagine breaking it down farther than what I did here. I also believe the data for the .25, .32 and .44 magnum should be viewed with suspicion. I simply don't have enough data (in comparison to the other calibers) to draw an accurate comparison. I reported the data I have, but I really don't believe that a .32 ACP incapacitates people at a higher rate than the .45 ACP!"
"Some people will look at this data and say "He's telling us all to carry .22s". That's not true. Although this study showed that the percentages of people stopped with one shot are similar between almost all handgun cartridges, there's more to the story. Take a look at two numbers: the percentage of people who did not stop (no matter how many rounds were fired into them) and the one-shot-stop percentage. The lower caliber rounds (.22, .25, .32) had a failure rate that was roughly double that of the higher caliber rounds. The one-shot-stop percentage (where I considered all hits, anywhere on the body) trended generally higher as the round gets more powerful. This tells us a couple of things... [followed by an explanation of psychological stops]
People said the same thing about Glasers.I am wondering if the New Lehigh or Underwood "Capacitor" cartridge would change the dynamics of the 32?
Never could understand how someone can put a 1911 or similar IWB and be comfortable all day.
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the 380 will probably work fine, in the unlikely event that I need to use it for real. but, then again.....what about barrier penetration? multiple assailants? drugged out wackos? nutjobs mowing people down with an auto?
we cant be prepared for every scenario.
strike a balance between physical comfort and mental comfort, find a chassis that your eyes and hand are most comfortable with, and become fluent with it.
id rather face a dolt with a 45 than a fluent user of a 380 (or 22LR for that matter)
Why is it that people who rationalize their choice of buying and then carrying some of the smallest pistols available always go to the extreme of the equation and use examples of carrying AR's, shotguns, .44 Mags or have to talk about battles like Fallujah?I agree, there is a balance to both comfort and physical and mental. And for myself that is were the 380. shines. And of course we cannot prepare for all scenarios, are we would all be carrying around shotguns and AR's. You pick and choose what you think is realistic in terms of a common attack, road rage, going to your car at night, walking the dog, etc. A 380 is a very Practical Carry. And your Sig is one very nice 380. I am a Pico Fanboy, but someday will have a Sig, Colt, Kimber. Get a smooth shooting firearm like the Pico, Kahr, Sig, Kimber, or even the larger 380's Bersa, Ruger LC380 etc. and you can use a 22.cal for a trainer. Especially point and shoot. I love the Phoenix HPA. Love the feel and since it is a 1911 style like the Sig, would be excellent cost effective way to train.
As I have posted before, we cannot prepare for every attack. However we all choose what we think we should train the most with on our carry guns. And Training, quickness and accuracy will supersede all firearms regardless of caliber. I train for these scenarios. And of course the Main Goal is to be better than average.
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By the way, Here is a Phoenix 22.
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Unfortunately, the FBI does not gather information about distance of gunfights in routine submissions to the Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program. The only information on distances is gathered as supplemental data in cases where police officers are actually killed. These data are compiled in Table 36 — Distance Between Victim Officer and Offender, 2003–2012, in the current report. However, this table reports only a very small subset (44) of “gunfights” police engaged in. The data that is collected about the total number of police gunfights (2,259) is compiled in Table 70 — Type of Weapon and Percent Injured, 2003–2012. No distances are provided in this table.
Even the data in Table 36 must be interpreted carefully, because the distance given is for where the officer was actually killed. For example, in a previous year, a State Trooper returning home was ambushed from across the street at a distance of 35 yards with a rifle and severely wounded. His assailant then walked over to him and executed the Trooper at close range with a handgun. Since the Trooper was killed at almost touching distance, he was reported as a zero to five feet casualty. But the “fight” actually took place at 35 yards.
Why is it that people who rationalize their choice of buying and then carrying some of the smallest pistols available always go to the extreme of the equation and use examples of carrying AR's, shotguns, .44 Mags or have to talk about battles like Fallujah?
You don't need to go to the extreme. A few hundred years ago in order to be considered 'well armed' our forefathers had to carry two flintlocks as well as a large blade. Nowadays someone carrying an 7 to 12 rd 9mm or .40 S&W pistol, a reload and a folding knife beat that all to hell.
Carrying two flintlocks and a sword or dirk isn't exactly comfortable either.
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Might want to check this out.
Found here ...
https://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/article/what-do-fbi-statistics-really-say-about-gunfights/
So that while that table you posted sums things up nice and neat it's incorrect and is only an insight into the bias of some shooters mind. I remembered that the FBI doesn't record this info (much less post such information for public consumption) and did a quick search to refresh my memory of the particulars.
Then to top things off your reaction to such data (incorrect though it may be) is to choose a sub-par .22LR pistol.
All I can say to such a post is ... it's your life.
well, theres physical comfort, and then theres mental comfort.
strike a balance between physical comfort and mental comfort, find a chassis that your eyes and hand are most comfortable with, and become fluent with it.
The LCP, Pico,Kahr etc. all carry so well. And I agree even the small 9mm's do not come close. I have one of the smallest, (Nano at 5.63 OAL) which carries IWB without a holster, but even that is not going to make it all day in Hot weather. The closest I have come for 9mm is my LCR. That little revolver carries very well IWB and I carry without a holster. I HATE IWB Carry on just about anything else. I am OCD about my pants fitting correctly and having to stuff a gun down them, just never works for me unless it is a small firearm. Never could understand how someone can put a 1911 or similar IWB and be comfortable all day.
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The FBI chart I used suites me just fine and regardless of other charts FBI etc I will train with the approach I deem necessary for MY safety! If the word FBI bothers you than sorry, that is just the way the chart was presents.
Really?And no one is talking about extremes. If you had been looking at all the post, I also carry a two 9mm's. I never once mentioned a 44 mag. etc.
The AR's and Shot guns were NOT concerning battles in Fallujah, for God sake. The mention of AR's and Shotguns were clearly mentioned in the video. And most likely why Modern day Police carry Shotguns and AR's. Maybe you are the one going to the extreme. And NO a 380 pocket gun is NOT GOING TO THE EXTREME.
And of course we cannot prepare for all scenarios, are we would all be carrying around shotguns and AR's. You pick and choose what you think is realistic in terms of a common attack, road rage, going to your car at night, walking the dog, etc.
Why are you settling for a 40 cal? Maybe you should reconsider and start carrying a 12 ga. What to you think of the Shock Wave?
....... is using a powerful 9mm cartridge.
Depends. Comparing the 9mm to what? The .380? Yes, it's powerful. In some cases it has twice the M.E.Funniest thing I've heard all week!
Unless you mean .357 Sig.
Depends. Comparing the 9mm to what? The .380? Yes, it's powerful. In some cases it has twice the M.E.
Yeah, generally the 9mm isn't what comes to mind when someone says the word 'powerful' in relation to pistols and revolvers.Very true. Still made me laugh out loud though.
Yeah, generally the 9mm isn't what comes to mind when someone says the word 'powerful' in relation to pistols and revolvers.
For civilian concealed carry, 380 is plenty adequate, especially if you are more proficient with the 380 than larger calibers.
And like Jeb says, sometimes carrying a larger gun is just a no go. That’s why I also own a Pico in addition to other larger guns.
The LCP, Pico,Kahr etc. all carry so well. And I agree even the small 9mm's do not come close. I have one of the smallest, (Nano at 5.63 OAL) which carries IWB without a holster, but even that is not going to make it all day in Hot weather. The closest I have come for 9mm is my LCR. That little revolver carries very well IWB and I carry without a holster. I HATE IWB Carry on just about anything else. I am OCD about my pants fitting correctly and having to stuff a gun down them, just never works for me unless it is a small firearm. Never could understand how someone can put a 1911 or similar IWB and be comfortable all day.
James Bond always made amazing shots with his .380. I
Depends. Comparing the 9mm to what? The .380? Yes, it's powerful. In some cases it has twice the M.E.