Skylerbone
Member
I chose Federal in my PPK sized FEG then came around to the XTP as a more accurate solution. Both fed well, XTP was more readily available.
Question on .380 Automatic
- Thread starter Mr. Mosin
- Start date
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Robbins290
Member
When i carried a 380, I read about people loading it with FMJ's because JHP's will not expand. I never got this way of thinking. A JHP might expand (say 50% of the time) in the right condition. and a FMJ will never expand, wouldn't you want something that might expand 50% of the time vs something with a 0% rate of expanding???
BTW, i was just using 50% as a point, its been almost 10 years since i carried a 380 so i am sure the info i researched 10 years ago is not good today.
BTW, i was just using 50% as a point, its been almost 10 years since i carried a 380 so i am sure the info i researched 10 years ago is not good today.
MedWheeler
Member
FL-NC writes:
To refer back to thread-topic, the .380 is a 9mm (though with a lighter bullet and a shorter case.)
To refer back to thread-topic, the .380 is a 9mm (though with a lighter bullet and a shorter case.)
dbmjr1
Member
I carry .380 acp Rem Golden Sabers in my 9mm Browning chambered handgun.
I carry Hornady Critical Defense in my Colt Mustang.
I carry Hornady Critical Defense in my Colt Mustang.
CapnMac
Member
There are two things at play here.
One--number one in my book--is shot placement. You can buy all the SuPeRXtremeDoubleLeathalZombieWhomper* ammo you want, but, if in your firearm, with you shooting it, it only prints to Minute-of-Barn, that's only useful if you are assaulted by a large agricultural structure.
Second issue ties to the first. You have to practice with your carry ammo, you really do. And more than 5-6 rounds every year or so. But, if that SXDLZW** ammo is $6 a round, you simply cannot afford to practice with it. (This was an issue with all the glossy gun mags all gushing over Glazer ammo--they glossed over the then $3/round cost, for all jumping on the "best thing evah" bandwagon.)
There's a tertiary issue in that all individual firearms will differ in which ammo is "best" in that one arm.
In my (not micro-szie) Govt Model .380, the best grouping ammo is Hydra Shok. But Silvertips price slightly better. Are either of those the best performer s in gel? No. But, I can demonstrate the POI is an inch up and an inch right of POA at 10 yards. This week, next week, last week.
_______________________________
*I do believe I'm going to go trademark that name, to get ahead of the ammomakers.
**And the abbreviation, too [
]
One--number one in my book--is shot placement. You can buy all the SuPeRXtremeDoubleLeathalZombieWhomper* ammo you want, but, if in your firearm, with you shooting it, it only prints to Minute-of-Barn, that's only useful if you are assaulted by a large agricultural structure.
Second issue ties to the first. You have to practice with your carry ammo, you really do. And more than 5-6 rounds every year or so. But, if that SXDLZW** ammo is $6 a round, you simply cannot afford to practice with it. (This was an issue with all the glossy gun mags all gushing over Glazer ammo--they glossed over the then $3/round cost, for all jumping on the "best thing evah" bandwagon.)
There's a tertiary issue in that all individual firearms will differ in which ammo is "best" in that one arm.
In my (not micro-szie) Govt Model .380, the best grouping ammo is Hydra Shok. But Silvertips price slightly better. Are either of those the best performer s in gel? No. But, I can demonstrate the POI is an inch up and an inch right of POA at 10 yards. This week, next week, last week.
_______________________________
*I do believe I'm going to go trademark that name, to get ahead of the ammomakers.
**And the abbreviation, too [
]
Monac
Member
I very much agree with you, Robbins290. Cap'n Mac is right in that you have to check that the hollow point gives accuracy as good as FMJ, but given the same shot placement, would you rather place an FMJ or a JHP? No, the JHP will not make up for bad shot placement, but who said it would? (I agree with Cap'n Mac very much about the need for practice to achieve good shot placement.)
The LCP is a knockoff of the Keltec P3AT.
The real problem with 380 ACP is insufficient penetration. With expanding bullets, the penetration is going to be less than if those very same bullets from the same cartridge at that velocity didn't expand. It may be possible to find a 380 ACP cartridge that will result in good penetration and expansion from the short barrel length of an LCP. Otherwise, you can have one without the other -- penetration but no expansion or expansion but not enough penetration. If I had to compromise, I'd take penetration over expansion. So FMJ or JFP are not necessary foolish choices in 380 ACP. Hollowpoints are risky (risking underpenetration), but it may be possible to find one that's perfectly suited.
Monac
Member
I don't mean to be snarky, but if FMJ pistol ammo was as effective as hollow points, no one would bother with hollow points, and HP pistol ammo would have died with the Super Vel company back around 1980. Soft nosed automatic pistols bullets, which were around in the 1930s, died out for that reason.
Monac
Member
Could you explain what you mean by inadequate penetraion, labnoti? I don't have a picture of what that is.
(I understand "no expansion" perfectly well. It is the state of nature for a pistol bullet, and its effectiveness varies wildly.)
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,148
As always, you are best off with a functioning firearm, especially light ones because they don't even make good clubs, if they don't run.
That said my LCP even runs on my homemade shot shells, doesn't seem very picky to me.
I have never seen any 380 HP as blunt as they are.
Monac
Member
labnoti said: "Michael Platt"
A) It was my impression that the bloody gunfight in Miami in 1986 between Michael Lee Platt and a number of FBI agents was considered to be a tactical failure in several ways by the FBI before the shooting even began, and that trying to put blame on the inadequate penetration of one bullet was seen as an attempt by the FBI to divert blame. My impression of that comes from the articles Masaad Ayoob wrote about the shootout in "American Handgunner" magazine. I have not read them for years, but I think I cut them out and can get them if desired.
B) The shooting was in April 1986. Are you saying there has been no progress in pistol bullet design in 34 years? Nothing has gotten better, not even a result of the Miami shootout? Wow, that's bold. I bet a bunch of ammo companies would beg to differ.
Look, if you feel I asked an unfair or contentious question, fine. Neither of us are experts (especially not me). When people throw around terms like "inadequate penetration", I wonder what they mean, because inadequate expansion seems to be the problem far more often. For decades, with old fashioned RN bullets, we got all the penetration we could get, and the results were not adequate for police use. That is the whole reason HP pistol bullets were developed. If the penetration of some HP bullets are inadequate, I would like to know roughly what inadequate is.
A) It was my impression that the bloody gunfight in Miami in 1986 between Michael Lee Platt and a number of FBI agents was considered to be a tactical failure in several ways by the FBI before the shooting even began, and that trying to put blame on the inadequate penetration of one bullet was seen as an attempt by the FBI to divert blame. My impression of that comes from the articles Masaad Ayoob wrote about the shootout in "American Handgunner" magazine. I have not read them for years, but I think I cut them out and can get them if desired.
B) The shooting was in April 1986. Are you saying there has been no progress in pistol bullet design in 34 years? Nothing has gotten better, not even a result of the Miami shootout? Wow, that's bold. I bet a bunch of ammo companies would beg to differ.
Look, if you feel I asked an unfair or contentious question, fine. Neither of us are experts (especially not me). When people throw around terms like "inadequate penetration", I wonder what they mean, because inadequate expansion seems to be the problem far more often. For decades, with old fashioned RN bullets, we got all the penetration we could get, and the results were not adequate for police use. That is the whole reason HP pistol bullets were developed. If the penetration of some HP bullets are inadequate, I would like to know roughly what inadequate is.
Ernie Bass
member
The number one 380 round done by shooting the Bull was PrecisionOne XTP. It gave both good penetration and expansion. Later PrecisionOne developed the Plus P which according to them has 50 ft more FPS. I use them in all my Pocket guns. For one, the accuracy is better than anything I have used to date. (note, would not advise them to be used in any pocket gun where the manufacture state to not use Plus P.+)
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
There are two things at play here.
One--number one in my book--is shot placement. You can buy all the SuPeRXtremeDoubleLeathalZombieWhomper* ammo you want, but, if in your firearm, with you shooting it, it only prints to Minute-of-Barn, that's only useful if you are assaulted by a large agricultural structure.
Second issue ties to the first. You have to practice with your carry ammo, you really do. And more than 5-6 rounds every year or so. But, if that SXDLZW** ammo is $6 a round, you simply cannot afford to practice with it. (This was an issue with all the glossy gun mags all gushing over Glazer ammo--they glossed over the then $3/round cost, for all jumping on the "best thing evah" bandwagon.)
There's a tertiary issue in that all individual firearms will differ in which ammo is "best" in that one arm.
In my (not micro-szie) Govt Model .380, the best grouping ammo is Hydra Shok. But Silvertips price slightly better. Are either of those the best performer s in gel? No. But, I can demonstrate the POI is an inch up and an inch right of POA at 10 yards. This week, next week, last week.
_______________________________
*I do believe I'm going to go trademark that name, to get ahead of the ammomakers.
**And the abbreviation, too [
I agree with all three of your points. I would add “trust in one’s ammo”. That kind of falls under 2 of your points. To trust ammo one has to shoot a lot of it. To shoot a lot of it one must be able to afford it. If one cannot afford it then one should look for different ammo or budget to buy the ammo that works in your gun(s).
Because the first thing is to make a hole far enough through, I like the hardcast flat nose ammo from Underwood:
https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...cp-100-grain-flat-nose?variant=18806648373305
https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...cp-100-grain-flat-nose?variant=18806648373305
1942bull
Member
Except that Shooting the Bull updated the results and knocked Precision one #2 and found Leigh Defense Extreme Penetrator to be the best 380 ammo. If you go to my post #15 above there is a link to the video of the test.
Ernie Bass
member
Shooting the Bull never tested the PrecisionOne Plus P. It came out after he was done with the test. Yes I like the Penatrator and Underwood. But I prefer the PrecisionOne. I do carry the Underwood in my P32.
1942bull
Member
Very interesting development of which I was not aware until I read your post. I looked up the ammo at the Precision One website, where they caution that the ammo was designed for pisto;s with heavy recoil springs like the Glocks. I would not put my LCP2 in that category and Ruger advises no +P in the gun. One of my concerns about 380+P is that there is no SAAMI standard for it, and manufacturers are basically using a designation that is totally their own construction.
I tried to find ballistics test of the ammo and could not. Precision One does not have any ballistic specs other than Velocity for the ammo. I will be staying with the Lehigh ammo for two reasons: 1) primarily because my LCP2 is not designed to use it, and 2) it is not within SAAMI specs for 380. That’s though because I learned fro your post.
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Ernie Bass
member
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I was just waiting for the 9mm comment to come and sure enough it did.
Very little real world difference in self defense situations between the two.
bdickens
Member
what you smokin'?
obiwan1
Member
For years when I carried a .380 for EDC I used the hottest ammo available. In the '70s it was SuperVel. In the '80s and '90s it was CorBon. I still didn't believe that they would expand. Recently I bought some ARX and some HoneyBadger ammo. They test well and feed 100%. They aren't supposed to expand so, at worst, they would act as round nose. At best they could be very effective.
FFGColorado
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2020
- Messages
- 1,129
?? Huh?? I know you can shoot a 380 outta a 9mm, but won't feed..yes?
As far as accuracy with Lehigh vs more 'normal' 380 stuff..I see no difference in the ranges that I train to..like close to 15 yards or so..
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