Garandimal
member
... and saves me the trouble of makin' a vid.
('cept I settled on the 150 gr. FB/SP @ 2800 fps.)
GR
('cept I settled on the 150 gr. FB/SP @ 2800 fps.)
GR
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The .270 Winchester - Tom River Explains...
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Garandimal
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"...O'Connor hunted and took 36 species of game with the .270 and used it in North America, Mexico, India and Africa. O’Connor favored the 130 grain Nosler Partition which he used to take most of his game. Some of the large game shot by O'Connor with the .270 include Eland, Zebra, Black bear, Elk, 12 Moose and 2 Grizzly bear. He was not however biased towards the .270 and had a list of favorite cartridges including the 7x57, .7mm Rem Mag, .30-06, .300 Weatherby Magnum, .338 Winchester Magnum and the .375 H&H Magnum. To his mind though, the .270 offered a level of power and a flat trajectory suitable for all North American hunting at a recoil level that most hunters could comfortably handle.
As the .270 gained popularity with U.S hunters, negative opinions also arose. Hunters began to complain that the 130 grain loading ruined too much meat and tore large holes in skins. To help with the problem Winchester released a 150 grain load at a very moderate velocity. Ironically, sales of the mild performing 150 grain load were very low. As a compromise and as an easy means of optimizing profits, ammunition manufacturers reduced the powder charge weight of 130 grain loads, lowering muzzle velocities to below 3000fps.
It was at this time that New Zealand government hunters began to utilize the .270 for the mass culling operations on NZ wild deer. The new lower velocity loadings caused abysmal results. After locating a herd of deer, the culler would open fire, quickly shifting aim from one animal to the next. Once the entire herd was culled, the next job was to collect the tails as required proof of the kill. In the South Island of NZ, when Red deer hinds became lean in the winter, the .270 130 grain bullet would pass straight through the chest with either little expansion or simply low energy transfer. Slow kills allowed animals to escape unnoticed by the culler who was focused solely on placing one chest shot after another on successive animals. The .270 was soon discarded for other faster killing combinations.
In the U.S, similar comments occurred over several decades, however the widely opposed complaints of either too much meat damage or too little did nothing to inspire ammunition manufacturers. Factory loads remained unchanged till the mid 1990’s when premium options started to become available. Since the year 2000, competition between ammunition manufacturers has resulted not only in more variation of bullet styles, but also a general, major increase in performance all around..."
GR
As the .270 gained popularity with U.S hunters, negative opinions also arose. Hunters began to complain that the 130 grain loading ruined too much meat and tore large holes in skins. To help with the problem Winchester released a 150 grain load at a very moderate velocity. Ironically, sales of the mild performing 150 grain load were very low. As a compromise and as an easy means of optimizing profits, ammunition manufacturers reduced the powder charge weight of 130 grain loads, lowering muzzle velocities to below 3000fps.
It was at this time that New Zealand government hunters began to utilize the .270 for the mass culling operations on NZ wild deer. The new lower velocity loadings caused abysmal results. After locating a herd of deer, the culler would open fire, quickly shifting aim from one animal to the next. Once the entire herd was culled, the next job was to collect the tails as required proof of the kill. In the South Island of NZ, when Red deer hinds became lean in the winter, the .270 130 grain bullet would pass straight through the chest with either little expansion or simply low energy transfer. Slow kills allowed animals to escape unnoticed by the culler who was focused solely on placing one chest shot after another on successive animals. The .270 was soon discarded for other faster killing combinations.
In the U.S, similar comments occurred over several decades, however the widely opposed complaints of either too much meat damage or too little did nothing to inspire ammunition manufacturers. Factory loads remained unchanged till the mid 1990’s when premium options started to become available. Since the year 2000, competition between ammunition manufacturers has resulted not only in more variation of bullet styles, but also a general, major increase in performance all around..."
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troy fairweather
Member
I don't mind the 270 but it won't ever be the 280 
.
.PREACH!I don't mind the 270 but it won't ever be the 280
I know, it will never be that slow!
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Garandimal
member
I don't mind the 270 but it won't ever be the 280
Sure - just download it... ~ 10%, to the 60K psi of the .280...
Neither shooter nor game would notice the difference.
GR
earlthegoat2
Member
So I didn’t watch the video.
Think I can just guess what it says.
Think I can just guess what it says.
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Garandimal
member
So I didn’t watch the video.
Think I can just guess what it says.
Probably not.
But then, you may not care, anyway.
GR
All right you convinced me, ill try another .270win
It will be interesting to compare it to the range of 7mms ive got and the .270wby...which i still need to rent the reamer for....
Figgure a .284 of 150gr with velocity ranging from 2800-3400fps
And the wby at 31-3200
Now to find a faster than standard twist .270....tho guess if were sticking with 150 class bullets a 1-10 is fast enough.
It will be interesting to compare it to the range of 7mms ive got and the .270wby...which i still need to rent the reamer for....
Figgure a .284 of 150gr with velocity ranging from 2800-3400fps
And the wby at 31-3200
Now to find a faster than standard twist .270....tho guess if were sticking with 150 class bullets a 1-10 is fast enough.
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Wreck-n-Crew
Member
How long did the 30-06 reign over the 270 as a competition cartridge when it never had the support of precission barrels or the right components? I have mentioned it at least few times over the last decade. What we do know is that it shoots flatter and has more energy at long distance.
Be that as it may the thought of what could have or should have been no longer matters when better things have come to take their place.
It's been said that more deer have been taken in a bolt action chambered in 270 win than any other cartridge in North america. Dont know how true that is.
I have also heard that more deer have been taken with a 30-30 than any other cartridge. Can't say that is fact or not either.
What I can say is the 270 win had an undeserved reputation of not being suitable to a few tasks it really was more than capable of....if given a fair shake.
Be that as it may the thought of what could have or should have been no longer matters when better things have come to take their place.
It's been said that more deer have been taken in a bolt action chambered in 270 win than any other cartridge in North america. Dont know how true that is.
I have also heard that more deer have been taken with a 30-30 than any other cartridge. Can't say that is fact or not either.
What I can say is the 270 win had an undeserved reputation of not being suitable to a few tasks it really was more than capable of....if given a fair shake.
Alaskan Ironworker
Member
Loon wolf talked me into a .270 mcgowen barrel a few months ago for a mauser re-barrel. Im lovin it so far. Its a 1 in 9 twist, so I should be able to stabilize some 160 grain partitions nicely? Problem is I only have so many large rifle primers, and so many large rifles....
Between 129 to 150 I can think of a couple real slippery bullets you'd probably wanna try, 1-10 might not be fast enough...... Though if you run the win xp black tips or Browning bxrs, you'll definitely get the splodey performance you like..... But you'll still be missing out on a FEW of the good ones! 1-10 twist is the difference I come back to in the world of .280/ai vs .270. If the .270 was built more like the 6.8 western, I'd be more open minded to it. I remember I knew this one feller had a .250ai (and a 6-284 too I think) with too slow barrels......they ended up not working out for HIM, maybe you'll have better luck with the slow twist .270 though.
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Garandimal
member
The good thing is - there are no .270 Cal. "low velocity" hunting cartridges.
All the hunting bullets - are developed around "high velocity," generally the spec .270 Win. (save the 6.8 Rem SPC, which has its own)
Given the new >165 gr. heavies available and in development?
A .270 Win, with the throat of the new 6.8 Western, a 1:8 twist 24" Bbl., and long loaded to 3.6" COAL for the Rem 700 magazine would be tempting...
GR
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Who knows.....Between 129 to 150 I can think of a couple real slippery bullets you'd probably wanna try, 1-10 might not be fast enough...... Though if you run the win xp black tips or Browning bxrs, you'll definitely get the splodey performance you like..... But you'll still be missing out on a FEW of the good ones! 1-10 twist is the difference I come back to in the world of .280/ai vs .270. If the .270 was built more like the 6.8 western, I'd be more open minded to it. I remember I knew this one feller had a .250ai (and a 6-284 too I think) with too slow barrels......they ended up not working out for HIM, maybe you'll have better luck with the slow twist .270 though.
150 balistic tips will likely be used for testing from both calibers....at least at first...because i have 400 or so in .284, just gotta find some in .277.
Actually i can also bum some 150ablrs from a buddy to try again also....the WBY should be able to stabilize those, at least i think they will. Ive never beem able to get a 150 much over 2900 with a standard .270, but the extra capacity should scratch 32 with the slower powders.
earlthegoat2
Member
I was goaded into it.
A lot of commentary on elementary bullet construction theory and very little on why the .270 should be chosen over anything else. In the end it told me exactly what I thought it was going to. Nothing wasted as I listened to it trying to drift off to sleep. It failed at that so I guess it was interesting.
Nonetheless, an informative commentary on the history and applications of the .270.
The 6.8 Western is to the .270 what the 6.5 CM is to the 6.5 Swede. Either can do what the other can. One is just made for “modern bullets” and factory rifles are designed for it. Customs in 270 or 6.5 Swede with long throats and fast twist rifling with logical hand loads will do what 6.5 CM and 6.8 Western will do with factory rifles and off the shelf ammo. More or less at least. Careful hand loads will net best results in either.
A lot of commentary on elementary bullet construction theory and very little on why the .270 should be chosen over anything else. In the end it told me exactly what I thought it was going to. Nothing wasted as I listened to it trying to drift off to sleep. It failed at that so I guess it was interesting.
Nonetheless, an informative commentary on the history and applications of the .270.
The 6.8 Western is to the .270 what the 6.5 CM is to the 6.5 Swede. Either can do what the other can. One is just made for “modern bullets” and factory rifles are designed for it. Customs in 270 or 6.5 Swede with long throats and fast twist rifling with logical hand loads will do what 6.5 CM and 6.8 Western will do with factory rifles and off the shelf ammo. More or less at least. Careful hand loads will net best results in either.
Swampman
Old Fart
Twist rate on the 1894 Swedish Mauser was 1 in 7.8 inches and they were throated to handle 156 grain round nose bullets.
125 years ago they were already being made with a leade and twist rate that'd handle the longest VLD's anyone is likely to want.
The metallurgy wasn't up to modern standards and propellant technology was still in it's infancy, but they sure as hell had the barrel mechanics figured out.
125 years ago they were already being made with a leade and twist rate that'd handle the longest VLD's anyone is likely to want.
The metallurgy wasn't up to modern standards and propellant technology was still in it's infancy, but they sure as hell had the barrel mechanics figured out.
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Garandimal
member
The 1:10 will stabilize the 160 gr. NP, though maybe not as well.
Interested how the 150 and 165 gr ABLR's shoot.
Sure the 150 gr. will fully stabilize, and that one, in the .270 Win case, is the long range energy powerhouse, anyway.
A slick 165 gr. NP is my wish for a faster-twist .270 Win.
That bullet would equal near ass matters the 175 gr. .284 NP's SD, and probably exceed its BC.
GR
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Garandimal
member
It accurately dispels the myth that the .270 Win, as a cartridge, is somehow flawed, based on several decades of empirical data.
JOC, Aagaard, and Seyfried got it right... and the more current crop, like Barsness, Boddington, and Spomer, put it back on track.
GR
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Garandimal
member
.277/150 gr. ABLR:
.270 WSM and .270 Win, long loaded to max COAL...
H/T: TRexF16
And, as for the 6.8 WESTERN and the 165 gr. ABLR...?
Looks like a Std. length action and long throated Bbl. would improve the hand-loaded round as well.
H/T: RSO
GR
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loose noose
Member
I've got a .270 Winchester in a 700BDL Custom Deluxe that I bought new in 1974, since that time I've shot a number of mule deer, (all with 150 grain spire point bullets) as well as whitetail, and never had to trail them more than a hundred yards, actually less, with a sufficient blood trail, and BTW I only had to trail a huge muley I shot on a dead run that left a blood trail so obvious even a blind man could follow. I've also taken quite a few pronghorn using the 130 grain, and never had any of them go any where. I've only shot one mature bull elk using the afore mentioned 150grain that went right down on a fire break. There was no meat damage done to any of the deer, elk, or pronghorn, other than the huge Muley I shot on the dead run on the last day of the season, I took out the liver, (do love venison liver) as well as the heart and lung, and found the projectile just inside the hide on the opposite side. I'm a firm believer in shot placement, and knowing where that round is going before pulling the trigger.
Alaskan Ironworker
Member
Ive noticed plenty of .277 projectiles still on the shelves while most everything else is sold out. Plenty of 6mm also. Picked up some barnes 150 grainers today.
Works for me!
Yep that's been my observation as well, The two bullets that have been in stock at SPS since this whole thing started were 9.3's and the 277-165..
Pretty much everything else gets gobbled up literally as soon as they put it up for sale.
The 9.3 is I can understand as that has never been a horribly popular cartridge in the US, excellent though it may be.
And the 165 ABLR's being in stock for a long period of time shows the one major flaw in the 270 Winchester's design(IMO), and it's not a cartridge failing.
Long streamlined bullets like the 165 ABLRs won't stabilize and the 1-10 twist every manufacturer I know of uses for the 270 Winchester. Other cartridges hailing from military or target background have rifles twisted fast enough thar the bullet weights exceeding the case capacity of a standard long action before most of them can't comfortably stabilize them.
The 25's and to a lesser degree the 6 mm's suffer the same issues.
And like it or not bullet manufacturer and design is getting away from the traditional low BC designs commonly used in hunting rifles. I'm not even sure how many round nose bullets are still being offered in the sub-30 calibers, Where is even 20 years ago there's at least one in every caliber.
Personally I hope the 6.8 Westerner pushes rifle manufacturers to put a faster twist on the 270 Winchester's, As I have no real interest in a short fat 277 especially in a long action, But I wouldn't mind having a 270 Winchester in a long action that could take a long skinny bullet.....
Pretty much everything else gets gobbled up literally as soon as they put it up for sale.
The 9.3 is I can understand as that has never been a horribly popular cartridge in the US, excellent though it may be.
And the 165 ABLR's being in stock for a long period of time shows the one major flaw in the 270 Winchester's design(IMO), and it's not a cartridge failing.
Long streamlined bullets like the 165 ABLRs won't stabilize and the 1-10 twist every manufacturer I know of uses for the 270 Winchester. Other cartridges hailing from military or target background have rifles twisted fast enough thar the bullet weights exceeding the case capacity of a standard long action before most of them can't comfortably stabilize them.
The 25's and to a lesser degree the 6 mm's suffer the same issues.
And like it or not bullet manufacturer and design is getting away from the traditional low BC designs commonly used in hunting rifles. I'm not even sure how many round nose bullets are still being offered in the sub-30 calibers, Where is even 20 years ago there's at least one in every caliber.
Personally I hope the 6.8 Westerner pushes rifle manufacturers to put a faster twist on the 270 Winchester's, As I have no real interest in a short fat 277 especially in a long action, But I wouldn't mind having a 270 Winchester in a long action that could take a long skinny bullet.....
gotboostvr
Member
It wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing faster twisted 270win's once the 6.8W starts getting rolled out. At least in models avaliable in both cartridges.
If brand A makes a model 1 in both 270 and 6.8, I could see using the faster twist barrel for both.
But if brand B makes a model 2 in only 270 it'll probably stay the old standard.
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