Why the .270 is obsolete

[someguy2800]

So now I don't understand Physics - because you are enamored w/ a Marketing ploy?

GR

The evidence suggests you don't. I'm not enamored with anything other than factual data. The velocities the OP posted deliver 98.5% of the muzzle energy for 89.7% of the recoil. I making assumptions on the charge weights based on my own 270 load data and hodgdon's 7-08 load data. If recoil is an important consideration for you, and apparently it is for the OP, then you can make your own conclusions.

 

[Newtosavage]

Physics: F=MA
Physics: E=1/2(MV^2)
Physics: A = Δv/t

Anything else?

...is a Marketing ploy, design to separate fools from their money.

"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -​

GR

If you think my personal observations are a marketing ploy, you really are off the deep end.

I'm not sure how you can argue with the fact that the external ballistics are easy to document, and the felt recoil is easily observed. To attribute opinions based on these two facts to marketing is, in itself, a marketing ploy.

 

[Newtosavage]

First fora non handloader, you have a wider selection to choose from for factory ammo http://www.ballistics101.com/270_winchester.php

I didn't dispute that. In fact, I cited it as a reason I plan to give my son a .270. One of, if not the only reason, actually. There is a chance I'll be "stuck" with the .270 after he shoots it though, because he's very familiar with my 7mm-08 already and might be willing to pay the extra for the factory ammo because it's more pleasant to shoot.

 

[Newtosavage]

The evidence suggests you don't. I'm not enamored with anything other than factual data. The velocities the OP posted deliver 98.5% of the muzzle energy for 89.7% of the recoil. I making assumptions on the charge weights based on my own 270 load data and hodgdon's 7-08 load data. If recoil is an important consideration for you, and apparently it is for the OP, then you can make your own conclusions.

View attachment 834735
View attachment 834736

Powder charge difference was 52 grains of H4350 for .270 and 40 grains of IMR 8208 XBR for the 7mm-08.

 

[Garandimal]

The evidence suggests you don't. I'm not enamored with anything other than factual data. The velocities the OP posted deliver 98.5% of the muzzle energy for 89.7% of the recoil. I making assumptions on the charge weights based on my own 270 load data and hodgdon's 7-08 load data. If recoil is an important consideration for you, and apparently it is for the OP, then you can make your own conclusions.

View attachment 834735
View attachment 834736

And it uses:

Physics: F=MA
Physics: E=1/2(MV^2)
Physics: A= Δv/Δt

Powder charge mass - that results in greater velocity and flatter trajectory.

Push the .270 to 2900 fps?

...and it walks away from the 7mm-08.

No free lunch in Physics.

If you are happy w/ less?

...All the better.

"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -​

GR

 

[TN Outlaw]

Subjective reasons like WANTING heavier bullets are personal interests and differ between persons. I don't "want" anything heavier than 160gr even though there are several heavier bullets in .277 out there. Matter of fact 130gr-150gr are a very useful bullet weight in the southeastern U.S. If heavier bullets are needed, I wouldn't use either of the two rounds being discussed.

The difference in recoil, is fact. If the difference in recoil with similar weight bullets is enough on the bench to make a real difference is subjective though. Some people can't tell a difference between the two (approx 17ftlbs vs 19ftlbs) and some shooters tolerance level for recoil lies below the 7mm-08 so that is also a personal preference.

There's been alot of "crazy" scattered out across these threads lately. Calling a cartridge obsolete that is at this very day still hugely successful and popular certainly is bonkers itself. I enjoy my 7mm-08 and my 270 Win's both. I hunt with both and have fed my family with both. I do get around 200fps more velocity with the 270 Win but I also have to pay the toll of more recoil, longer action, longer barrel, heavier gun, etc to do it. When I feel like the toll is worth paying, I pay it. When it's not, I don't.

If a round that closely mimics another with less recoil makes another obsolete we wouldn't have but a couple different chamberings to choose from.

 

[someguy2800]

Push the .270 to 2900 fps?

...and it walks away from the 7mm-08.

No free lunch in Physics.

If you are happy w/ less?

...All the better.

"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -​

GR

Why not a 300 win mag? Why not a 338 lapua? More is always betterer right?

Powder charge difference was 52 grains of H4350 for .270 and 40 grains of IMR 8208 XBR for the 7mm-08.

Well there ya go, 98.5% of the muzzle energy for 86.7% of the recoil energy.

 

[Newtosavage]

If a round that closely mimics another with less recoil makes another obsolete we wouldn't have but a couple different chamberings to choose from.

Fair enough. It's not obsolete for someone who is willing to accept 11% more recoil for 1% more energy.

 

[mcb]

Fair enough. It's not obsolete for someone who is willing to accept 11% more recoil for 1% more energy.

But if you put a good brake on both rifles then of the two example loads the 270 Win probably wins on the recoil game. The greater ratio of propellant mass to projectile mass is going to make the brake more efficient and thus more effective at reducing the total recoil impulse.

 

[CraigC]

Therefore, it's obsolete.

Yeah, that's not how it works.

 

[Garandimal]

Why not a 300 win mag? Why not a 338 lapua? More is always betterer right?



Well there ya go, 98.5% of the muzzle energy for 86.7% of the recoil energy.

Why not a 6.5 Creedmagic?

...or a 6.0 Creedmagic for that matter.

No free lunch in Physics.

If you are happy w/ less?

...All the better.

"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -​

GR

 

[mustanger98]

In my part of the country, 200yds is a longer shot. Within 200yds, most rifles... .30-30, .30-06, .270, .25-06, .243, etc... they're all doing about the same thing. Everybody gets to use whatever rifle and cartridge they like for fit, perceived recoil, or any other reason.

The vision quest post last night was probably the funniest part of these threads lately.

 

[Newtosavage]

Now you're just trolling. Nowhere can I recall comparing the ballistics of the 6.5 CM to the .270. That was a different thread.

 

[Garandimal]

Now you're just trolling. Nowhere can I recall comparing the ballistics of the 6.5 CM to the .270. That was a different thread.

Push the 160 gr./7mm-08 to 2900 out of a hunting rifle?

...And we will have something to discuss.

Until then, low-performance comparisons are a placebo for the weak minded.


No free lunch in Physics.

If you are happy w/ less?

...All the better.

"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -​

GR

 

[Newtosavage]

If you think people are routinely shooting 160's out of the 270 at 2900, then I got a bridge for sale. LOL

 

[TN Outlaw]

Double Tap .270 Win 160gr NP 2850fps out of a 22" BBL. 2900fps from a 24" bbl.

I routinely shoot 160gr 270 Win out of a 24" bbl @ 2900fps.

What about that bridge?

 

[Newtosavage]

bring a cheater bar to work your bolt. LOL

 

[TN Outlaw]

Bring a booster seat with your 7mm-08

 

[Newtosavage]

Bring a booster seat with your 7mm-08

LOL Good one.

 

[old heeler]

Different points.
Of course the 6.5 CM is going to have less recoil. It also produces considerably less downrange velocity and energy. So no surprise there.

The surprise is the difference in felt recoil between the 7mm-08 and the .270 which are extremely close in terminal performance and ballistics.

That was my point.

There was no surprise you already knew difference, just put little polish on it. Remember this post

I had a Tikka .243 that I was considering having rebarreled to a 7x57, but a friend talked me out of it. He really fell in love with that rifle at the range the other day, and is fine with the .243 chambering. So here I sit wondering if I'd pay money to have my 30-06 stainless T3x rebarreled to a .280 Rem just so I can use the same bullets between my 7mm-08 and my "big" gun. I do miss that convenience when I had both 7x57 and .280 Ruger 77's.

When you look at the numbers for hunting bullets, it's really hard not to like the 7mm.

.270's are great all-around rifles, but as was said, the 7mm-08 will do almost the exact same job with less powder and less recoil in a lighter gun.

Newtosavage, Dec 18, 2017 Report

 

[hot chili powder]

The 270, with 130 gr bullets, handloaded to "group" in your gun is one heck of a cartridge to beat......not that it can't, but for the average shooter/hunter it's all ya need. Old Cactus Jack O'C sure convinced me the 270 was all I needed, just sayin'!

 

[Newtosavage]

There was no surprise you already knew difference, just put little polish on it. Remember this post

I had a Tikka .243 that I was considering having rebarreled to a 7x57, but a friend talked me out of it. He really fell in love with that rifle at the range the other day, and is fine with the .243 chambering. So here I sit wondering if I'd pay money to have my 30-06 stainless T3x rebarreled to a .280 Rem just so I can use the same bullets between my 7mm-08 and my "big" gun. I do miss that convenience when I had both 7x57 and .280 Ruger 77's.

When you look at the numbers for hunting bullets, it's really hard not to like the 7mm.

.270's are great all-around rifles, but as was said, the 7mm-08 will do almost the exact same job with less powder and less recoil in a lighter gun.

Newtosavage, Dec 18, 2017 Report

It's kind of creepy how some of you guys can remember stuff people have posted long ago and pull it up in minutes. Jeepers.

A guy had better watch what he posts 'round here! LOL

And yes, I'm still thinking about rebarreling that Tikka to a .280.

 

[Garandimal]

If you think people are routinely shooting 160's out of the 270 at 2900, then I got a bridge for sale. LOL

Doubt even the rubes are amused by your parlor tricks.

- .277/150 gr (SD 0.279/BC 0.465)
- 7mm/160 gr. (SD 0.283/BC 0.475)
- 6.5mm/140 gr. (SD 0.287/BC 0.490)
are the directly comparative bullets.

Out of a 24" Bbl. and non-compressed loads:
The .270 Win. pushes the 150 gr. to 2900 fps. (ME 2800 lb-ft)
The 7mm-08 pushes the 160 gr. to 2630 fps. (ME 2460 lb-ft)
The 6.5 CM pushes the 140 gr. to 2730 fps. (ME 2320 lb-ft)

With commensurate recoil.

By any metric, using an 8 lb. rifle as e.g. for recoil, the the 7mm-08 (16.4 lb.ft) is inferior even to the .260 Creedmagic (14.4 lb-ft) for its minuscule 6% energy advantage.


No free lunch in Physics.

If you are happy w/ less?

...All the better.

"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -​

GR

 

[cdb1]

If the 7mm-08 was around 45 years ago I might like it better than the .270, but it wasn’t and I don’t. Even after taking an online sensitivity training class I still can’t tell much of a difference in recoil between a .308, 30-06, 280 Remington, .270 and 7mm-08. All of the above will work equally well for the hunting myself, friends and family do, so take your pick.

 

[Elkins45]

I’m finding myself skeptical that a 270 can drive a 160 grain bullet at 2900fps and stay within SAAMI specs, and I’m someone who owns more than one 270 rifle. The first centerfire rifle I ever bought was a 270 so I’m a fan, but if I wanted to fling heavy bullets I would have bought something else.