CptnAwesome
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So.... What's everyone having for dinner tonight?
Why the .270 is obsolete
- Thread starter Newtosavage
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There exists no more a fervent fan base than that of the 270 Win. Always partly slighted by the 30-06 and larger crowd while also being infringed by the short magnum fans , all four of them, the 270 Win. contingent struggles to understand the need for anything else, while memories of dropping bucks stretching back to the 1950's dance in their heads.I guess .270 is the new Glock vs 1911 thread. People can't... not.... respond....
by the way jmorris, the correct answer is T-bone. Yes, it is better in every way.that's an argument that actually MATTERS, DAMMIT!!
Newtosavage
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I wasn't using the same weight bullets. I doubt there is a 200-225 fps. real world advantage between the two with the same weight bullets. Hodgdon's data shows less than 100 fps. difference if both are using 150's.
correct. I was referring to the original bullets mentioned.
I mean the difference is 6-8 gr. of powder, and slightly better BC for the 270. same bullet weight
mustanger98
Member
I think the concept of obsolete was made up by marketing and sales departments to convince people they need something new. Sure there are improvements and new things that work better. But if the original item works and does what the owner wants then whos someone to say it's obsolete.I don't have or want a .270 but it's a great cartridge. I do have one of Winchesters other red haired step child the .348 Win. Another one of a kind. Forget finding loaded ammo thats not a collectable. But shoulder that beautiful M71 and it knocks down big stuff as well as the most modern cartridge in it's class. Obsolete, look in the mirror, I bet we all are on someones chart.
I'm pretty sure that's all "obsolete" is. I haven't heard anything about a .348Win in a long time... I recall Elmer Keith writing about it in "Hell, I Was There". He and Jack O'Conner seem to approach rifles from opposite angles. For whichever reason, it all works.
mustanger98
Member
Dunno yet... sirloin grilled medium, with a good sized baked potato and peach cobbler, was good at lunch. And for my last three deer, a .243 was more than adequate... or if I were to go after caribou, I'd probably want to pick up a .303British.
mustanger98
Member
This while the .25-06 fans keep on quietly doing their thing with the loudest rifle in North America.
MTMilitiaman
Member
I am with those that say better is not obsolete. And this isn't even necessarily better, just different. Maybe more effecient, but enough to declare the competition obsolete? Nope.
There isn't much that can't be done with older cartridges. The 7mm-08 doesn't do much the 7x57 can't do, so by your standards, the 7mm-08 was probably "obsolete" the day it was introduced.
There isn't much that can't be done with older cartridges. The 7mm-08 doesn't do much the 7x57 can't do, so by your standards, the 7mm-08 was probably "obsolete" the day it was introduced.
Matthew Clark
Member
Well you used my quote and said "according to the list you posted". I posted that list way back but it did have them numerically listed. You didn't say who you were talking to.
Why wouldn't I think you were talking to me?
Doesn't matter, drive on if you weren't talking to me.
These conversations, if you can call them that, have since become useless as to having any real value to sportsman. Done here!
old heeler
Member
I think it been nice if you let posters know about 6.5CM/270 you already notices recoil difference as you did shooting 7-08.
Newtosavage
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Different points.
Of course the 6.5 CM is going to have less recoil. It also produces considerably less downrange velocity and energy. So no surprise there.
The surprise is the difference in felt recoil between the 7mm-08 and the .270 which are extremely close in terminal performance and ballistics.
That was my point.
Garandimal
member
So, You don't use bullet wt./Velocity/SD/BC/Field Performance... and yet the .270 W.C.F. is... "obsolete"?
By the same metric, so is the Olympic Gold Medal - on account of the fact that after the event is over? ...everybody gets on the same bus.
"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -
GR
Newtosavage
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The disparity in recoilerformance ratio has me looking to pull the .270 barrel on my Tikka to replace it with a 7mm-08 barrel for my son.
erformance ratio has me looking to pull the .270 barrel on my Tikka to replace it with a 7mm-08 barrel for my son.My "obsolete" reference is to the fact that the .270 doesn't do anything the 7mm-08 doesn't do, except produce more recoil. Therefore, it's obsolete.So, You don't use bullet wt./Velocity/SD/BC/Field Performance... and yet the .270 W.C.F. is... "obsolete"?
By the same metric, so is the Olympic Gold Medal - on account of the fact that after the event is over? ...everybody gets on the same bus.
"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -
GR
Garandimal
member
The disparity in recoil
My "obsolete" reference is to the fact that the .270 doesn't do anything the 7mm-08 doesn't do, except produce more recoil. Therefore, it's obsolete.
No free lunch in Physics.
If you are happy w/ less?
All the better.
That same argument is all the rage w/ the 9mm Para crowd as well.
GR
Newtosavage
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Less weight? Less recoil? Less frustration selecting bullets? Sure.
I don't think you're getting it. It's been well documented that recoil produced isn't a direct relationship with energy produced. It's also been documented that there is a relationship between the volume of powder and recoil.
So there is no clearer way to say this. The .270 and the 7mm-08 are virtually ballistic twins while the .270 produces more recoil. There are good reasons to choose the .270 - I get that - but they are not related to anything that has to do with ballistics. The price and availability of ammo are IMO the only reasons to choose a .270 over the 7mm-08. And those are the reasons I'm giving my son a .270.
Reduced recoil, potentially better accuracy, better bullet selection, lighter rifles and heavier factory loads are all reasons to choose the 7mm-08 over the a .270.
So, some reasons are socio/economic and the others are physical.
theotherwaldo
Member
Sub-optimal is not equal to obsolete.
Newtosavage
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Okay.
Garandimal
member
Physics: F=MA
Physics: E=1/2(MV^2)
Physics: A = Δv/Δt
Anything else?
...is a Marketing ploy, design to separate fools from their money.
"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -
GR
Last edited:
someguy2800
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silicosys4
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5+ threads later, lots of sound and fury, yet not one good reason given why I should toss aside a rifle that has done literally everything I've needed it to with aplomb, spend a bunch of money tooling up for another rifle and supporting gear, just to do exactly the same thing.
Not. One. Difference....except money spent.
Not. One. Difference....except money spent.
Garandimal
member
Use is all the time.
And it uses:
Physics: F=MA
Physics: E=1/2(MV^2)
Physics: A= Δv/Δt
Lower energy - produces lower force.
Anything else?
...is a Marketing ploy, design to separate fools from their money.
"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -
GR
Last edited:
someguy2800
Member
Using and comprehending are evidently different things.
Garandimal
member
So now I don't understand Physics - because you are enamored w/ a Marketing ploy?
Physics: F=MA
Physics: E=1/2(MV^2)
Physics: A= Δv/Δt
Lower energy - produces lower force.
Anything else?
...is a Marketing ploy, design to separate fools from their money.
"Truth is incontrovertible.
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -
Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it.
...But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -
GR
Last edited:
First fora non handloader, you have a wider selection to choose from for factory ammo http://www.ballistics101.com/270_winchester.php
Secondly for the non handloader, it would appear that one could get 300 - 500 adnl FPE from certain loads in the 270
Secondly for the non handloader, it would appear that one could get 300 - 500 adnl FPE from certain loads in the 270
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