Returning Fire In a Street Shooting You Aren’t the Target Of

I don't need to watch the video to answer that.

Unless I'm in the thick of it (being shot at) my plan would be to unass myself from the situation.

Running away or curling up into a ball behind anything is better than poking your head up and spraying a few rounds. Different story if you are the actual target.

Jeff White said:

Now I know everyone here is completely cool and calm under fire and perfectly capable of calmly putting down the bad actors. But I have to ask, if a gang shootout like shown in the video happened in your presence, wouldn’t taking cover be a better option then adding to the number of high speed projectiles flying around the neighborhood?

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One would think. Though it doesn't appear that it was an concerned, innocent resident bystander contributing to the "hail of gunfire." But since the gangbangers lose their street cred if they don't shoot back, this appears to be another senseless gang shootout.

One suspects that this style of gang shooting is just a reflection of what these kids have been exposed to in movies, television and video gangs. Seeking cover is not typically a tactic that's often depicted; another reason that so many innocents become victims in these types of shootings.

News reporters' commentary that adds nothing to the issue: "Residents are calling for an end to the violence." Clearly this is not a "strategy." What would be a strategy would be providing alternatives to the gang lifestyle for the young people in their communities. But then, our current youth culture glorifies violence and the thug lifestyle while minimizing the concept of gaining education and pursuing an actual career.

Are you sure who the bad actors are? Could it be undercover officers involved? Will opening fire draw fire towards you? Will opening fire make you a target by responding officers?

Nope, I am going to get my head down and get out of the area if possible.

Jeff White said:

I posted this in response to a suggestion made in another thread about returning fire if a drive by happened in your presence.

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Understand. The idea of returning fire if this type of incident happened in one's own neighborhood is, as you point out, ill-advised, highly dangerous and pretty much ludicrous.

Jeff White said:

I posted this in response to a suggestion made in another thread about returning fire if a drive by happened in your presence.

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Thats a broad brush. "In your presence."

Are you being shot at? If so my opinion would be cover first if possible, and or defense of ones self while trying to maintain the same rules of any SD shooting (knowing target, backstop, bystanders, etc.)

If the drive by is a block down the road then unass ASAP.

If not an intended target and simply an innocent bystander the wise path would be to seek cover.
The likelihood of dirtbag gangbangers actively pursuing random passersby is probably remote.
When cross-posting from other threads the specific participants should be tagged as a courtesy.

If I'm not being shot at .... I'm not firing

I will give my statement to the responding LEO's as a uninvolved witness.

Such a stupid thing. To say you’re going to “return fire” on a drive by car.

As Jeff said, you’re simply going to be adding to the issue of more bullets flying. The ones that hit the innocents might very well come from YOUR gun.

Cover first and always. In the absence of cover, concealment and low position. Assess and return fire if necessary. My ROE is much different outside of cammies. I do not need or want the legal responsibilities involved with suppressing fire and collateral damage. Returning fire at a spray and pray drive by would be a last resort and if I had a reasonable assumption I was the target.

I have followed this personal protocol in the TWO drive by shootings I have been close enough to see the vehicle doing so. In both cases I did not fire any rounds and gave as much information as possible to law enforcement. What they did with it was up to them. Not my job anymore.

By the time you can access whats going on it would most likely be too late. Hard to say. I would have to be there. I dont think I would sit back and watch someone get slaughtered if I was alone taking a walk or something. Most likely it would happen so fast the best you could do is call 911 and try and deal with the aftermath the best you could. Sound alone is going to throw you out of whack. By the time you take cover and gather yourself chances are its over.

I could also be in a "not my problem" mood and shrug it off. I wont lie..... I have those days sometimes.

If you are not being shot at then you are not "returning" fire. You are attacking.

I'll stay out of it as long as they let me stay out of it.

armydog said:

I'll stay out of it as long as they let me stay out of it.

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Whats the matter..... you dont want to get in the middle of some drug war or gang dispute? You are supposed to rip off your overshirt and run out like Superman or the Punisher to save the day! Take on a group of body armor clad thugs carrying rifles with your pocket auto. Be the hero....

Then the media paints you as some sort of racist vigilante who gunned down a car full of innocent victims practicing the RKBA because..... MAGA! Then you get dragged through the courts begging for money while the gun community online says.... he should not have been there. Next thing you know you are Rittenhouse 2.0. Death threats the rest of your life with a bounty on your head.

About the only safe thing you can do these days is call 911. They "might" show up.

That sounds like a good way to wind up in jail.

Armored farmer said:

That sounds like a good way to wind up in jail.

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Someone might be able to pull it off if they flee the scene before the LE arrives but I dont advise it. I believe its illegal. Chances are you get caught on camera and will be hunted for doing a drive by while the actual perps testify against you.

Kind of the same as its always been... if you pull the trigger you better be willing to go all the way.

To even suggest retuning fire sounds like more internet Banter.

I carry to keep myself and my family safe in the event someone confronts us. If something else is going on it's mind my own business time and get out of dodge as quickly as possible. Plus in that situation you have no clue who the good/bad guys are and you could mistakenly start shooting at the good guys. Not worth it.

I avoid the bad part of town. If i do see a street shootout. I'll get away asap.

Jeff White said:

In another thread a member mentioned returning fire if he was unfortunate enough to be where a drive by shooting was happening.

There is some home security camera video of a gang shootout where a woman in a home was killed by a stray round.

https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/g..._app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link

Now I know everyone here is completely cool and calm under fire and perfectly capable of calmly putting down the bad actors. But I have to ask, if a gang shootout like shown in the video happened in your presence, wouldn’t taking cover be a better option then adding to the number of high speed projectiles flying around the neighborhood?

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That wasn't a drive by shooting. This was a drive by shooting:

And getting behind cover immediately would be the only reasonable decision whethert you were the target of the driveby or not. This is step number 1 in the standard react to contact battle drill: 1. Soldiers immediately take up the nearest covered positions and return fire in the direction of contact. returning fire would of course be questionable and situationally dependent here.

Suppose you were walking down the street and you come upon two or more people in a fist fight. Are you going to in jest yourself start throwing punches
I am not going to because for me it’s not my fight. I feel the same about gun fights, sword fights, knife fights, blunt instrument fights., and all other kinds of fights.

I may defend a third party, or, may not. I would need to love them enough, and care for him/her/them enough, as individual(s), to be willing to go to prison, and risk my family’s future financial security, for having defended them. I signed on for this, as an LEO, so, the responsibility/burden equation is familiar, though I am now retired, so the “duty to act” is no longer on me, and I had to leave my super-hero suit, and cape, at Supply Division, as part of the checking-out procedure.

I may love my neighbor, as myself, but, I have to place my family above myself, and, above my neighbor.