KarateHottie93
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- Joined
- Oct 24, 2017
- Messages
- 387
seems like they stopped making them or having trouble importing them
There's different companies bringing them in. I think Mauser is the most recent.
seems like they stopped making them or having trouble importing them
Much of the trouble can be seen above.
Everyone wants one of [insert thing here]; the number willing to pony up dollars for [thing] are far, far fewer. That drives up the retail price significantly. Which further suppresses demand. To sell [thing] at $600, you need a production cost down around $200 out-the-door. If it costs you around $2000 to make [thing], that's where you get MSRP of $5000.
the Chinese gun maker Norinco if they wanted could make them in a couple of calibers in a few months and sell them for $400. they took their M14/M1A and easily converted it to the 7.62x39 and shortened the barrel. a US maker would have been crying about the machinery problems etc and if they did it they would be $2000Much of the trouble can be seen above.
About half the market wants one in a different caliber--which may be significantly more complicated than appears on the surface (like getting a 45mm case into a 33mm action).
True collectors want "an original" so the defanged SA-only version is less desirable to them.
Getting the internal parts to will-pass-ATFE-muster and still fit in the action is not a trivial bit of engineering. And, it's not inexpensive engineering, either.
But, the biggest hurdle is actually demand.
Everyone wants one of [insert thing here]; the number willing to pony up dollars for [thing] are far, far fewer. That drives up the retail price significantly. Which further suppresses demand. To sell [thing] at $600, you need a production cost down around $200 out-the-door. If it costs you around $2000 to make [thing], that's where you get MSRP of $5000.
Everyone "got mad at" Brownells for announcing that they were no longer selling the AR-10 clones they were making; Brownells only contracted for about 400 of each version, and sold like 375 on average. "Thousands" wanted one, but only hundred actually bought any.
Despite individual fervor for one, there are, perhaps 300, maybe 400 willing to fork over hard cash for an 8x33 STG-44 clone. And, that's before having to deal with all the ones wh actually want one in their inexpensive, easy to find, caliber that's a completely different dimension.
Price magazines, too, they are neither common nor cheap; and magazine engineering is a non-trival task in and of itself.
Perhaps 30 years ago, PRC has had any number of issues with labor costs in just the last decade.the Chinese gun maker Norinco if they wanted could make them in a couple of calibers in a few months and sell them for $400.
Yes, you can change a chamber for a 51mm cartridge and not ream it as deep for a 39mm one.they took their M14/M1A and easily converted it to the 7.62x39 and shortened the barrel.
Given that engineers generally want to make a living, and have rather specific notions of what their time is worth, can you fault them? Machine tools are not cheap, nor the jigs and fixtures and cutting tools, either.a US maker would have been crying about the machinery problems etc and if they did it they would be $2000
@CapnMac pretty much covered it all, but I jus want to add, too, that Norinco is subsidized by the Chinese Communist Party in a myriad of ways. It's not a fair comparison.the Chinese gun maker Norinco if they wanted could make them in a couple of calibers in a few months and sell them for $400. they took their M14/M1A and easily converted it to the 7.62x39 and shortened the barrel. a US maker would have been crying about the machinery problems etc and if they did it they would be $2000
telsa is subsidized by taxpayers and the cars start at 60K . GM propped up by the govt who is also paying the pensions of GM Ford and Chrysler and you can pay 100K for a pickup. that is just the tip of the subsidy iceberg@CapnMac pretty much covered it all, but I jus want to add, too, that Norinco is subsidized by the Chinese Communist Party in a myriad of ways. It's not a fair comparison.
the Chinese said DIEversity and multiculturism will and is destroying the west. they banned feminists and homosexuals. I would rather have them rule the US then the bolsheviks who rule it now. your phone computer all your electronics and half the stuff in your house are made in China. you are supporting the invasion of the US by China.Norinco is a wing of the People's Liberation Army. Buy Chicom, you are directly supporting enemy armed forces.
That is seriously funny when gas is $5/gal at CostcoBTW. I'd love to own a STG44 clone. But I ain't paying more than about $1k for it
That is seriously funny when gas is $5/gal at Costco
telsa is subsidized by taxpayers and the cars start at 60K . GM propped up by the govt who is also paying the pensions of GM Ford and Chrysler and you can pay 100K for a pickup. that is just the tip of the subsidy iceberg
paranoia strike deep
into your life it will creep
starts when you always afraid
the STG 44 was mostly stamped and made to be a throw away gun when it wore out. cause on the eastern front you did not live long. that was stated by the GermansPerhaps 30 years ago, PRC has had any number of issues with labor costs in just the last decade.
Were they in the market, they'd have to go to Armscor to steal the IP and have it made in Laos or Burma.
Yes, you can change a chamber for a 51mm cartridge and not ream it as deep for a 39mm one.
The barrel profile for .308 will also easily cope with 7.62x39 pressures.
It's quite different to take a 7.92x33 chamber and re-cut it to be 7.62x39 (long with a full barrel swap, new gas pressure dynamics, and the like. 300BO even more so (that's a bit like trying to get a 380acp to run a 38super).
Given that engineers generally want to make a living, and have rather specific notions of what their time is worth, can you fault them? Machine tools are not cheap, nor the jigs and fixtures and cutting tools, either.
There's this notion that you merely make a CAD, dump it in a CNC machine, and out pops a [thing].
There's an engineering process to the method by which parts are made to be assembled into a finished whole.
There's a distinct design limitation based on how many of a thing are to be made, too.
If you are making one of a thing, maybe you can justify the time needed for 57 tool changes per part; maybe you can't. Cutting tools have limits on how much they can cut, and how rapidly, too. These are engineering values that must be considered in making the one part in question. Which compounds per part.
The STG-44 has rather a lot of intricate parts, each one requiring some amount of time to be machined. That time adds up.
All of that is why a run of a couple hundred US-made Semi-Auto STG-44 would like to be US$7000 or $8000 apiece, retail.
if you were a Russian with the clumsy Mosin getting shot at by the STG 44 you wouldnt think it was a bad design. when patton said the M1 was the best battle implement ever a few guys said well he aint getting his azz shot up by the STG 44I have one of the GSG/ATI STG-44/22's which I bought from CDNN when they were clearing them out (~$300), which is the most I have ever paid for a .22.
Shooting it changed my mind about wanting one of the HMG reproductions. It's not the best designed rifle.
Next time I'm in Vegas, I would still rent an original at Battlefield Vegas just to experience shooting the real deal, but no way I would spend $1k+ for a reproduction.
Except that the song wasn't about the war....The man come, and take you away...
with apologies to Buffalo Springfield. That's probably THE best song to come out of the Vietnam War.
That was more true of the Haenel versions, which culminated in the various StG-45 variants, which were Volkswaffe, and not built for longevity. And, were hampered by all requiring Mp-43/44 magazines.the STG 44 was mostly stamped and made to be a throw away gun
There's a modern notion that stamping is both cheap and easy. That's complicated. The dies required for stamping can be ludicrously expensive as they need to be made of hardened steel to incredible tolerances. In use, the dies can go out of tolerance quickly (and in differing rates for hot versus cold stamping), Beyond the die for the stamp cutting, you need others to achieve the bends, too. And, you'll need a very qualified machinist to test and check the assembled bits. Which usually then need to welded up in a jig. All the load bearing or specifically-hardened bits then need to welded or riveted to the parts you have.