Talk to me about a .22
- Thread starter wcwhitey
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nettlle
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I've gone through a few guns but not high quality 22 bolt actions. Years ago I went to a gun show to buy a Ruger M77/22 the first year they were introduced (1983) and on one of the tables was a Clackamas Kimber Model 82 for $60.00 more. It came home with me and to this day is my favorite gun.
I would recommend the CZ.
I would recommend the CZ.
I am a member of Rimfire Central and have seen the pissing contests between Savage and CZ owners over there. Yes I am just an example of one. But out of all the CZ 22lr rifles I have shot, none of them outshot the Savage MkII rifles with the heavy varmint barrel that I own. In fact both brands shot the same for me. Others will have a different experience from mine.
I am not bashing CZ rifles by any means. But I personally can't justify spending more money when the Savage rifles shoot well for me. I would rather save some money on a rifle that shoots accurately to put towards better scopes or more ammo.
d2wing
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That is good. Glad it works for you and that you have a good one. I do not dispute what you say. Some guys seem to shoot a particular brand better too. I don't know why. The OP could have better luck with a Savage or Ruger and save money
jmorris
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The description of your wants, sounds just like my CZ455. Took me shooting it to warm up to it but I’d trade my Ruger American and even my 77/22 for another that shoots like it.
It actually shoots so well, I haven’t even tried the 17 HMR barrel for it.
It actually shoots so well, I haven’t even tried the 17 HMR barrel for it.
Howland937
Member
That's pretty common and often overlooked. Is one rifle a better shooter than the other? Possibly. Is the shooter good enough to shoot the difference, and if so, willing to spend the time and money lot testing ammo to achieve that difference?
If the OP wants a new cheap, accurate bolt rifle capable of shooting respectably at 50yards, Savage is the way to go. If he wants something with a little panache, Savage ain't it.
I can't really give a recommendation since I don't even look at guns that still have stickers on them. If I were in need of a .22, I'd be looking for an old Win 69A, Rem 511 or similar.
I think ammo leads to a lot of cognitive bias for the justification of someone's choice.
If some of the guys with budget guns are shooting budget ammo it's gonna skew the average group sizes you'll see with the budget guns.
Varminterror
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I own Savage Mark II’s and 93’s because I typically - year by year - don’t compete in Rimfire games. In eras when I do compete, I typically buy the RIGHT tool for the task, and when I stop the task, stop competing, I’ve sold the tool to someone else pursing the task. I’ve had some great shooting Savages, but in raw precision, the spear point of the CZ is sharper.
We saw this in the Rimfire Prove It thread a few years ago. I shot multiple attempts with my Savage BSEV and it’s preferred ammo, dropping only 2 points from perfect - and I correctly predicted it would only be a short while before someone came in with a CZ and cleaned the target… and they did. Appleseed, PRS-Rimfire/NRS-22, Rimfire silhouette, even Indoor Smallbore, Savage, Ruger, and Marlin rifles typically slip off of the bottom rung for minimum acceptable performance, which is wholly owned by CZ - and naturally, easily exceeded by Annie’s, Rem40x’s, Vudoo’s, Etc. The Tikka’s and Bergara’s are two I remain to be mentally evaluating - I’m still not quite sure if I think they’re holding a place on the ladder or not.
One thing I tell new competitors - if CZ’s didn’t deliver more, they’d fail in charging more; but they are able to derive 25-50% higher retail prices for good reasons.
We saw this in the Rimfire Prove It thread a few years ago. I shot multiple attempts with my Savage BSEV and it’s preferred ammo, dropping only 2 points from perfect - and I correctly predicted it would only be a short while before someone came in with a CZ and cleaned the target… and they did. Appleseed, PRS-Rimfire/NRS-22, Rimfire silhouette, even Indoor Smallbore, Savage, Ruger, and Marlin rifles typically slip off of the bottom rung for minimum acceptable performance, which is wholly owned by CZ - and naturally, easily exceeded by Annie’s, Rem40x’s, Vudoo’s, Etc. The Tikka’s and Bergara’s are two I remain to be mentally evaluating - I’m still not quite sure if I think they’re holding a place on the ladder or not.
One thing I tell new competitors - if CZ’s didn’t deliver more, they’d fail in charging more; but they are able to derive 25-50% higher retail prices for good reasons.
And I am not one to use budget or cheap bulk ammo in my rifles. I take the time to find out what each rifle shoots best.
And not using the ammo your rifle shoots the best can lead to bad accuracy no matter how much the rifle costs.
Again I won't bash CZ rifles, they are nice and do shoot good. And if I was still competing, I would get the best 22lr rifle that I could afford. I don't compete so the Savage woks well for me. And the Savage will shoot better than what the average plinker can do, especially if they insist on buying the cheapest ammo they can find.
I went thru that thread twice and didn't see a clean target from a CZ.
I'm not either I just tend to like a fair comparison.
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OP
wcwhitey
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Do I need bench rest accuracy, not really, but it’s nice. I started out shooting NRA Rimfire both indoor and 50 yard outdoor in the 70’s with a Mossberg Model 44US at 12. I have a box of patches somewhere. I have had and built a few .22 Tack Drivers, I can squeeze a good group out of a rifle. I don’t see myself competing but you never know.
Part of this search is because the .22 world has changed quite a bit from what I am noticing over the last decade or so. Some of the features of entry level rifles are things that would have taken some knowhow to implement not too long ago. That is how I started this hunt out. I gave my last .22 to my daughter as her and her Fiancé have been doing some shooting and she seems to really enjoy popping metal plates. I am sort of stuck as the build is part of what I enjoy. It seems not to make much sense in the current market though.
So far what I have picked up is the Ruger American in 22” (my sons) good rifle shot it last weekend and was quite impressed. First time I tried making tiny groups, shot 1” or so at 50 with its Nikon Prostaff 3x12 (I have another ready to mount) with Aquila Sub Sonic and Target. Easily capable of better as its set up for him. A version with a heavier barrel like the Ruger Standard 18” is on the list. I went shopping at two LGS’s one store had a Savage Mark II Minimalist with an nice wood laminated stock for $360. Nice on the shoulder and probably a nice field rifle but would be short for my 6’2” frame on the bench. Short and seemed that it will need some more cheek weld depending on optics. Was not a fan of the two piece scope mounts. The rest, the standard Mark II’s just felt too entry level and cheap. Rossi is like a pellet rifle. I still have to pick up an entry level CZ everything else was $1200. Fine rifles but not going that far.
Part of this search is because the .22 world has changed quite a bit from what I am noticing over the last decade or so. Some of the features of entry level rifles are things that would have taken some knowhow to implement not too long ago. That is how I started this hunt out. I gave my last .22 to my daughter as her and her Fiancé have been doing some shooting and she seems to really enjoy popping metal plates. I am sort of stuck as the build is part of what I enjoy. It seems not to make much sense in the current market though.
So far what I have picked up is the Ruger American in 22” (my sons) good rifle shot it last weekend and was quite impressed. First time I tried making tiny groups, shot 1” or so at 50 with its Nikon Prostaff 3x12 (I have another ready to mount) with Aquila Sub Sonic and Target. Easily capable of better as its set up for him. A version with a heavier barrel like the Ruger Standard 18” is on the list. I went shopping at two LGS’s one store had a Savage Mark II Minimalist with an nice wood laminated stock for $360. Nice on the shoulder and probably a nice field rifle but would be short for my 6’2” frame on the bench. Short and seemed that it will need some more cheek weld depending on optics. Was not a fan of the two piece scope mounts. The rest, the standard Mark II’s just felt too entry level and cheap. Rossi is like a pellet rifle. I still have to pick up an entry level CZ everything else was $1200. Fine rifles but not going that far.
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I have this rifle in 22 wmr, with a sig titanium can. What a rifle.Ruger American Rimfire, Target Model. I'd buy it again in a minute, too. Threaded bull barrel (with a Dead Air Mask in the picture), takes 10/22 magazines and a tack driver, to the extent I do my part . . . There are certainly other good choices, but htis was mine.
d2wing
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The thread is dead but I assume that you got a fabulous deal on a good rifle. Congratulations. The nice thing is that you can easily swap barrels on a 457. Folks do builds on those. Awesome. Another member happily enabled.
OP
OP
wcwhitey
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I get it bad link. I will get a good one, anyway its a CZ 457 20" Threaded Synthetic Stock Part number 02313
CZ 457 American Synthetic Suppressor-Ready - CZ-USA
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Patience pays! Enjoy and let us know what ammo it prefers!
In my experience the Ruger American bolt rifle was no more accurate than the Ruger 10/22. And it was less reliable.
I can't comment on the Savages one way or another. They might meet your accuracy and budget requirements, but I've never owned one.
If I wanted an accurate 22 bolt gun I'd spend the extra money for a CZ or the Tikka T1x. I sold my CZ452 American after buying the Tikka. At the time I paid $400 for my Tikka, but I think they are closer to $500 now. The CZ probably had equal accuracy potential, but it needed trigger work which I never got around to. The Tikka out shot it out of the box. I liked the safety, factory trigger and magazine better on the Tikka. The wood and aesthetics of the CZ certainly were appealing, but function over aesthetics won out.
I can't comment on the Savages one way or another. They might meet your accuracy and budget requirements, but I've never owned one.
If I wanted an accurate 22 bolt gun I'd spend the extra money for a CZ or the Tikka T1x. I sold my CZ452 American after buying the Tikka. At the time I paid $400 for my Tikka, but I think they are closer to $500 now. The CZ probably had equal accuracy potential, but it needed trigger work which I never got around to. The Tikka out shot it out of the box. I liked the safety, factory trigger and magazine better on the Tikka. The wood and aesthetics of the CZ certainly were appealing, but function over aesthetics won out.
Picked up this Winchester 69A at a Maine gunshow several years ago and though the stock had been refinished, it's a wonderful piece. I really enjoy it as a walkabout, plinking, and pest rifle at our Maine, country home. It's about the only rifle that I haven't modified to some extent, though the bolt handle was a little wiggly when I got it, so I took care of that little problem (High Strength Locktite) and it's been fine for several years.
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ColoradoMinuteMan
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They aren’t the prettiest, that is for sure, but they certainly get the job done and seem to be a quality arm. My kids and I really enjoy shooting my Ruger American Rimfire in .22LR and it might just be the most accurate .22LR I’ve ever fired.
I am just going to add an option that I suspect few know about. I picked up a used one years ago and it was accurate but I never got around to finding out what it liked best for ammo. Although they call it a youth model, it is not tiny. Armscor 14Y https://www.armscor.com/firearms-list/m14y-youth-rifle-22lr-10rd MSRP is $150.
Another rifle that I really loved was a straight-stocked Marlin 39A lever-action that I mounted a receiver sight on. It was a really fun rifle that dispatched lots of red squirrels at the family's camp, the first summer we were married...around 1965. We were the last ones staying at the camps in late September/early October and the reds were getting into the old camp, but the 39A got over a dozen of the critters. There were no other occupied camps that late in the season, so shooting direction or noise weren't problems to anyone. Still, my bride wasn't too crazy about my going out to shoot them in my skivvies. LOL!
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