FCD Swages Bullets? These pictures say otherwise.

Recently bought some Berry’s .356” 115gr RN when my .355” Extreme were about to run out.

This caused me to restart or prepare to restart sizing w/standard Lee sizer, expand w/Lee’s new M style plug, and taper crimp w/Lee’s FCD as required.

I wasn’t looking forward to this as I didn’t want to also swage bullets (due to larger size) as I read so much about.

With the .355”, for nearly a year I have not expanded nor crimped and for about six months have been using Lee’s undersized sizing die.

With all that as background, this AM just for fun and your viewing pleasure (and not to mention as a blatant provocation), I decided to reenact and photograph the process for both bullets and see if bullet swaging actually occurs.

Sorry, but no it doesn’t. Not even with the larger bullet.

Picture one on the left shows two .356” Berry’s in standard sized, M expanded, Winchester cases. On the right are two .355” Extreme in undersized, unexpanded Winchester cases.

All four have been run through a Lee FCD with the taper crimp sleeve removed. Thus, only the carbide ring could’ve made contact.

I should say but have no picture, all four dummy cartridges dropped into gauges so none required crimping. I know my barrels and gauges.



Picture two shows one Berry’s & one Extreme bullet pulled (hammer method—one whack) from their cases. On neither is there any evidence of squeezing, scratching, and certainly not swaging. Photo also shows remaining two dummy cartridges still assembled.

Third picture shows the two now pulled cases fitting neatly and completely in gauges. The point here is there was very little expanding from any source.

Also, all pictures show a great deal of apparent bulging in the cases. The overwhelming majority of that is an illusion exacerbated by the shine of the cases.

Walkalong said:

They can swage bullets down, but don't always. It depends on a number of things.

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Sure can so they say, sure does depend, but these don’t. And in that spirit I‘d like someone else try with this combo—these very popular .355” and .356” bullets & Winchester cases. Rather than say it can and does happen, let’s show folks when it doesn’t happen.

ballman6711 said:

It may be the pic, but one of those dummy rounds looks to be seated pretty crooked.

I like the comparison you did, pretty interesting.

chris

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Don’t think so, but too late now I’ve broken them down. If accurate, I’d ask for a refund from Redding for cost of my competition seater

Varminterror said:

I don’t see any measurements taken of the pre-FCD bullet or cartridge vs. post.

This isn’t the first “test” of this kind which has been done, although all others I have seen HAVE included actual measurements, and not just eyeball observations.

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No measurements taken. Can say none contacted the carbide ring, but you’ll have to take this for what it is and isn’t. Just a casual test.

Kaldor said:

I havent seen evidence that the 9mm FCD will swage a 9mm bullet. Thats because I think the case on the 9mm has a taper and the carbide ring is a much larger diameter than the bullet. This is with both copper and HiTek coated and HiTek bullets tend to run a thou thicker.

I have seen it in 45 ACP though, but just a small amount and only with HiTek coated. Jacketed have no issues. I think this is because 45 is a straight wall case. I "fixed" my 45 FCD by removing the carbide ring, and never looked back. Just makes things run nicer as well.

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I too have seen it in 45acp with Acmes. I fixed it by: 1. Resizing them to .451” v. their original .452”. 2. Stopped using Acmes, and 3. Bought a Redding taper crimp die.

Oh yeah, take a look at this picture I posted in a past thread—shows lots of combos of non-swaged 45acp.

Walkalong said:

Yep, need those to know for sure.

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Or you could ask if any contact was made with carbide ring Answer, no, none of them.

AJC1 said:

The swaging issue is a tolerance stacking thing seen mostly in revolver brass. Use a thick wall case with an oversize bullet .360-.361 ish and your in buisness. I size bullets to .358 and have no issues....

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I MAY try it with other case brands. But don’t have any other size bullets.

Edit just tried with FC & Blazer. Same results WRT to carbide ring/swaging=no contact/no swaging. BUT, one each with the .356” Berry’s will (would if a real cartridge) require slight flare removal.

Now to preempt questions about my “no contact“ with carbide ring comments. I’ll modify by saying none requiring any force to push through. Yes, if I were to draw a sharpie ring, it might smear or maybe not.

Just tried CBC with both bullets. No contact with Extreme.

But, with Berry’s .356” definitely made contact with carbide ring with slight rubbing of sharpie ink.



Bullet when pulled showed marks unlike prior examples but still measured .356”.

I’ve sized bullets of many varieties sometimes just to see what would happen, but I’m no expert. Even so, given the light force required with the CBC case, even though there was contact, I seriously doubt it was swaged down from a larger size BUT I’m not making claims one way or the other. Someone else will have to do that.

As we already knew, some brass is thicker than others. I didn’t recall one way or the other about CBC.

If you know or think of one that is thicker, let me know, I probably have it and will give it a try. (9mm that is).

Cheers

Walkalong said:

Testing requires data.

I believe you that it didn't contact the carbide ring if you say so, but it is one combination of many, of which no real conclusions can be drawn other than it did not with this one combination.

Is there a purpose to this thread? Just curious.

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Like you, just curious and thought others may be.

Kaldor said:

I just cut the bottom off my 45 FCD die, removed the carbide ring, and carried on.
I do leave the Acme bullets at .452 as while the coating doesnt burn off, it will compress, leaving clear grooves in the bullet in the samples we have. Doesnt seem to affect accuracy for me either.

What jacketed SWCs are you using in that pic? I do like SWCs, they seem to shoot really nice from my 45s. Ive shot alot Acmes over the years, but options are good.

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I had to resize the Acmes because I had a couple of finicky pistols and couldn’t shoot the Acmes any other way. And boy did I try lots of other ways first.

The SWCs are probably both Extreme and Berry’s but I can’t tell nor recall which is which. And yes my 1911s like them too.

AJC1 said:

I don't know if cbc is thick but that and s+b are the hardest 9mm brass I've ever sized.... livelong has a data sheet for 9mm brass thickness.

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Out of curiosity, just did two S&B with Berry’s .356” (both measured, but how good who knows?). They made virtually no contact with carbide ring. Haven’t pulled them & measured since there was no pressure.

jmorris said:

If the ID of the die and the OD of the bullets stay the same, case wall thickness is what has to change to swage a bullet down or not.

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Any idea off hand what Lee advertises as ID for the 9mm FCD?