45ACP Rounds w/No Expanding

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CQB45ACP

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Lots of sound and fury going on re: undersized dies and related. Some of each generated by me.

Not specifically related but I decided to reveal publicly my most recent experiment WRT 45acp sizing, expanding, seating, and crimping (or not).

So here’s a picture of three just loaded cartridges that began with undersized and lightly chamfered cases and Berry’s 230gr plated bullets @.452”. Note they are slightly beveled.

I did not expand the cases at all not even a little and carefully guided the Berry’s into my Redding competition micrometer adjusting seater to 1.260” And of course, nothing to crimp.

Voila!

I plan to shoot them in the morning in my Les Baer workhorse. If all goes well I’ll report back.
 
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I used to do the same thing in 9mm and 38 Super. Size/prime, charge, seat with comp die. No flare, so no crimp.
If you sort your brass you get consistent neck tension.
Doesn’t work with the Lee seater, too many tilted bullets, but the Redding comp seater puts them in straight.
 
Not really sure what you're testing for? What did you expect to happen, and compared to what?
 
Not really sure what you're testing for? What did you expect to happen, and compared to what?
Not testing for anything specifically. Was more of a curiosity.

But maybe scraping? Bulging? Who knows?

Edit: Actually I guess I had expected a really tight tension/feel as I seated the bullet. Not really different at all. I can imagine the age of brass has something to do with that but I don’t know.
 
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I used to do the same thing in 9mm and 38 Super. Size/prime, charge, seat with comp die. No flare, so no crimp.
If you sort your brass you get consistent neck tension.
Doesn’t work with the Lee seater, too many tilted bullets, but the Redding comp seater puts them in straight.
I do sort brass. These three are Winchester which I’m using exclusively for the time being to watch for degradation, etc.

I wouldn’t have tried this with my old Lee seater. I have a small collection of gouged plated and jacketed bullets caused by my using it carelessly.

I’m wondering if a thicker case wall would lead to different results.

I haven’t been crimping for some time (trying to avoid it but not always successfully)—started reducing expansion quite a while ago. But this absolutely no expansion is a first.
 
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I don’t like wasting components but I might try this with some Extreme plated. I sense (with no evidence at all) they have a thinner plating.
It depends on when they were made. The bulk boxes I bought pre bankruptcy are no thicker than the plain Berry’s or Rainier. The newer versions I bought are closer to the Berry’s “thick plate” - maybe even as thick as the Speer TMJ.
 
It depends on when they were made. The bulk boxes I bought pre bankruptcy are no thicker than the plain Berry’s or Rainier. The newer versions I bought are closer to the Berry’s “thick plate” - maybe even as thick as the Speer TMJ.
I have no clue about mine. I have maybe 50 left from a box I bought a couple years ago at Cabelas. They could’ve been sitting in a warehouse for years.

That’s another reason why my experiment is largely a layperson’s curiosity exercise not a @LiveLife myth busting analysis:)

And, I’m an original member of the short attention span club.
 
They look great and glad it worked out so well for you.
We will wait for the range report!
 
So thinking out loud—if one subscribes to the theory that undersized dies increase tension (as I USED TO), this casual experiment should have exhibited at least some little indication of that. It didn’t as far as I’m concerned.

Maybe other cases or bullets or something but not this iteration.
 
So thinking out loud—if one subscribes to the theory that undersized dies increase tension (as I USED TO), this casual experiment should have exhibited at least some little indication of that. It didn’t as far as I’m concerned.

Maybe other cases or bullets or something but not this iteration.
Can you tell us a little more on how you came to this conclusion.
 
Quite awhile ago was having difficulties with reloading 380 acp for a walther ppk. The problem wasn't bullet setback, but bullet pull (unusual). Had Lee make a 380 u die, and the problem was solved. It did require case belling without reexpanding the full inner dia. When i started out looking for ways to increase case neck tension or bullet setback in semi pistol calibers, went the route of not using an expanding plug or flaring in 9mm. It worked, but pinched my fingers too many times. Granted my bullet selection was not based on making that process easier and am using a single stage press. Some consider the use of an expanding plug is to help produce a consistent inside dia, which may, or may not be much more than the inside dia left after resizing differing makes of brass.

But when going the route in 9mm, could tell the difference when seating in single action press. However to determine if the desired results were being achieved, relied on testing setbck from dummy round being fed from mag using slide release. This seems to be the closest to replicate the forces the round would be subjected to. And yes, have the Redding comp pistol seaters, which really help in keeping the bullets straight while being seated.

At least in my experience, using a u die reduces the inner diam more than the resizing dies am using, which is what they are designed to do. And can tell a difference in bullet seating. Someone else's results may vary, as am not using much in the way of soft plated bullets. Am not having problems when using target full size lead in good brass.
 
Re X-treme Bullets' copper plating, they offered "regular" and "thick" plated versions of some calibers before the bankruptcy and still do. You have to be careful with their nomenclature, though. It can be confusing. Some descriptions say "heavy plated". Some say "HPCB" meaning heavy plated, concave base. Some just say "HP" meaning hollow point. Their 9mm and 45ACP hollow points are heavy plated. I don't know about other caliber hollow points. They used to explain all that somewhere on their website, but I can't find it now.
 
Each brand of brass will produce different results.

Even after expanding, spring back is different, between brands.

Bullet pull can be any where from 45 pounds to 100 pounds to move a 200 gr LSWC in 45acp.
In my testing.

Measure case (OD) outside diameter, before & after bullet seating. An increase of .002" to .005" has been measured.

Always fun to do your own testing. More reasons to shoot.
 
Some consider the use of an expanding plug is to help produce a consistent inside dia, which may, or may not be much more than the inside dia left after resizing differing makes of brass.
The sizer squeezes the material from the outside in, pushing all of the variations to the inside diameter, so using the expander plug, it not only smooths out the inside diameter of the case, it also pushes out all of the variations to the outside(a positive), it can also add the bullet lead provided by the M style expander plug, and your flaring. Using the correct diameter expander to the bullet diameter being used should always provide a case to bullet tension advantage due to round to round tension consistency. The benefits should always be greater for the reloaders using lead and plated bullets but doesn’t negate an advantage to jacketed rounds.
At least in my experience, using a u die reduces the inner diam more than the resizing dies am using, which is what they are designed to do. And can tell a difference in bullet seating.
Have you experienced the greater seating force in 9 mm and 45acp?
 
Have you experienced the greater seating force in 9 mm and 45acp?
yes, although in some instances it is more difficult to tell the difference. Like well used rp 45 acp pistol brass using jacketed bullets, which never do anymore.
 
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