A compeling reason to carry lots of ammo.

Levan,
Most 9mm/40 S&W/357 Sig guns (ie G19, G23, G32) are the same frame so saying that higher caliber guns are bulkier is a false statement in most cases. You do lose 2-3 rounds of capacity going to a 40 S&W/357 Sig but you have a more potent caliber even though a 9mm w/ proper ammunition is very effective. It is only when stepping up to a 45 Auto/10mm/38 Super that you generally have to deal with a bulkier gun.

G19 topped off to 15+1 and a full spare mag is the absolute minimum I will carry. When packing a 1911, it gets 3 spare 8-round mags to keep it fed if needed.

rgs1975 said:

Put a bullet in one head and the rest will likely scatter.

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That reminds me of a scene in Tombstone where Wyatt Earp says something like, "Your friends may get me but not before I make your head into a canoe."

In a mob attack, I think it likely that if you shoot one or two - preferably the one(s) who appear to be the leader(s) - the rest will run off. I try to avoid areas where violence is known to be commonplace, but sometimes you can't. Ask Reginald Denny.

I would agree that a single five-shot revolver, or small-caliber pocket auto, as your only carry, with no reload, is something I am personally not comfortable with.

How many times in the last 50 years has a citizen with a concealed weapon actually discharged more than 30 rounds in an act of self defense?

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The more important question is: How many times in (whatever time period you want) has an individual been killed or maimed from carrying too much ammunition for his carry gun, rather than the opposite of carrying too few rounds of ammunition? You really think there's historically been more problems with the people with ample ammunition to see the end of the firefight, rather than those who said "I'm fine with 5 rounds"?

I agree no less than 25, which is why I carry Hi-Capacitys P95(17rd mag)

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Where can you find 17 round mags for the P95? I can only find 15's for mine.

Thanks, Eric

Most 9mm/40 S&W/357 Sig guns (ie G19, G23, G32) are the same frame so saying that higher caliber guns are bulkier is a false statement in most cases. You do lose 2-3 rounds of capacity going to a 40 S&W/357 Sig but you have a more potent caliber even though a 9mm w/ proper ammunition is very effective. It is only when stepping up to a 45 Auto/10mm/38 Super that you generally have to deal with a bulkier gun

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May be, but I am also talking about diferent models. for.ex. Cz97 is much biger and heavier than Cz75, also great number of modern polymer pistols are oversized. Like USP for example

I like how 9mm performs and it is easy to find concealable gun with huge magazine capacity in this caliber.

I always thaugth that 40 or 45 is better if you can shoot pairs as quick as with 9mm.

thats my opinion based on realities which I have in country where I leave

I usually just have 15+1. On occaision I have slipped another mag of 16 in my pocket but I generally don't feel the need. As far as running from a group of 15 people goes... The way I see it is that it's likely that at least one is faster than me.

That reminds me of a scene in Tombstone where Wyatt Earp says something like, "Your friends may get me but not before I make your head into a canoe."

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That is a great quote. That movie is full of them!

I feel pretty comfortable w/ 5 rounds in a revolver most of the time. It is definitely reassuring to have a hi-cap mag and a reload though.

For the mob, yes.

For one bad guy, no.

I don't go into bad parts of town and feel perfectly fine with either my 5 shot laser-sighted J frame or my 6+1 LCP.
It's too hot here to wear a jacket and I have a hard enough time keeping my pants up without 4 extra lbs of lead and brass pulling them down.
I'm not going to be uncomfortable all the time in case of that 1 in a million chance that I will shoot it out with a gang. The odds just aren't there.
But then, this area is fairly quite unless you go into certain parts of town and I'm usually not out after dark much.

In MN we have an ongoing problem with gangs mobbing people - latest is a series in Coon Rapids, 5 people just jump out of the car and kick the [deleted] out of you. You go to the hospital for a week and nurse injuries for the rest of your life, while they spend your stolen money and laugh about it.

In these cases you probably won't get to spend all of your ammo, but the little that you do expend is well worth it.

Cdnn Has Mec-Gar 17 Rd mags for the P95. I have 2 carry them both and they work flawlessly.

I tend to carry 1-2 speed loaders and 2 speed strips with my SP101 and at least 2 extra mags for any semi-auto I carry.

One thing that myself and one my hunting buddies have begun doing is owning the same type guns. I carry my sp101 so does he. We do the same deer hunting. If one of us runs out/forgets, whatever, we have a backup to ammo with the other.

Not exactly a concealed carry story, but a good place to post it again anyway. And it happened just down the road from me. Thank goodness I wasn't in there buying jewelry that day in 1994.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_163_27/ai_99130342/pg_1

"Lead and diamonds: the Richmond jewelry store shootout - The Ayoob Files
American Handgunner, May-June, 2003"

"Situation: Two particularly brutal and heavily armed criminals hit an upscale jewelry store--and meet a firestorm of armed citizen resistance."

"Lesson: Sound planning beats seasoned perpetrators. Sometimes, the more firepower you have, the better."

"Pappy unlimbers his double-barrel, 12 gauge sawed-off shotgun and Tom draws one of the two handguns tucked in his belt, a 1911 .45 auto. They roll ski masks down over their faces and burst through the door."

"[One owner] can't remember how many revolvers he went through in the gunfight. He sequentially fired at least five and possibly six Rossi .38s in the shootout, plus the .44 Magnum. Most were run dry, but he fired only four rounds from the .44 and only four from at least one of the Rossis. Charlie now owns a higher capacity 9mm auto that is often within his reach."

This is not meant to be confrontational but you carry 50+ rounds of ammunition around every day? Please tell me you are more discreet than the guy I saw at the grocery store with the tac vest full of loaded AR mags and no rifle to be seen. Seriously even with a high capacity auto figure 17+1, you are carrying 3 reloads? Is anyone capable of doing this while concealing?

If I was being chased by fifteen people I would know my number was probably up. Perhaps shooting the most agressive attacker first and working your way through the rest might work, but I doubt your are going to live after you fight back as hard as you can and fail to kill them all. When I took my CCW class they presented victim statistics broke up into three groups #1 people who complied with their attackers #2 people who resisted their attackers and were not sucessful and #3 people who resisted their attackers and were sucessful. The group that resisted and were not sucessful had the highest mortality rate.

Bad Idea

ANTS

Carrying only 1 magazine with an auto is a bad idea.

REASON---What is you have a misfeed and have to do a clearance where you pull the magazine out. The usual way is to RIP it out and reload with a spare. You can stop and fool around with your jammed magazine at the range. In a gunfigth, it can get you killed.

Also, in my opinion, at least 10 rounds is a good start. My minimum with my revolvers is 15 rounds for the 5 shot models including at least 1 speedloader.

Jim

Posted by Matt-J2:
If it's 15 people chasing me, I'd be comforted more by my running shoes than any amount of ammo.

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Running isn't always an option. Since you have no way of knowing what's going to happen in this sort of situation, common sense would tell me to carry one or two extra magazines on my person.

The 63-year old gun dealer Harry Beckwith wouldn't have had much chance of outrunning a bunch of armed thugs 16 to 21 years old. He'd be dead right now, compliments of several bullets in the back.

ALWAYS prepare for a worst case scenario. Thinking that carrying only five rounds and having good running shoes will save you, is a good way to end up six feet under.

Posted by the Lone Haranguer:
n a mob attack, I think it likely that if you shoot one or two - preferably the one(s) who appear to be the leader(s) - the rest will run off.

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Thugs don't always do the "likely" thing, especially if some of them are armed themselves. Rather than taking a bullet in the back from you while trying to run, they'll very likely start shooting back.

Your best chance would be to ensure in advance that you're packing plenty of ammo. There are a number of concealed carriers at my range, and I haven't met one yet that has any problem whatsoever carrying and concealing their weapon and two spare mags.

When the situation starts to go down, you immediately seek cover and shoot to kill. The people who say "Gee, I'll just run like hell" aren't being realistic. If some of the perps are armed, they'll simply shoot you in the back.

In most cities, the cops aren't known for getting to the scene very fast. 40 rounds will keep you alive a lot longer than five, giving the police more time to get there.

Defensory said:

Running isn't always an option.

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For the record, if 15 people are chasing me, running is always an option. Since clearly, running is already what's happening. Also, I didn't say squat about 5 rounds.

This is not meant to be confrontational but you carry 50+ rounds of ammunition around every day? Please tell me you are more discreet than the guy I saw at the grocery store with the tac vest full of loaded AR mags and no rifle to be seen. Seriously even with a high capacity auto figure 17+1, you are carrying 3 reloads? Is anyone capable of doing this while concealing?

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You have to dress around carrying. If you wear pants that clearly show the outline of your genitals, carrying 50 rounds, or even carrying probably isn't easy or manageable for you.

Posted by Matt-J2:
For the record, if 15 people are chasing me, running is always an option. Since clearly, running is already what's happening. Also, I didn't say squat about 5 rounds.

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For the record, it was painfully obvious that I was referring to multi-perp armed attacks in general.

What if you're at the back of a dead-end alley facing armed perps and there's nowhere to run, but only a lone dumpster nearby? Common sense would tell me running is NOT an option unless you think that running in the open TOWARD multiple armed perps is a "good" option.

Common sense would further tell me that getting behind the dumpster and start delivering controlled fire would be the only viable option. As the thread title states, this would certainly be "a compelling reason to carry lots of ammo."

The 63-year old gun dealer Harry Beckwith wouldn't have had much chance of outrunning a bunch of armed thugs 16 to 21 years old. He'd be dead right now, compliments of several bullets in the back.

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If you're referring to when the thugs attacked Harry's gun store, then that's not really a fair comparison. It was basically a home invasion. Harry lived next door to his shop. He saw the thugs drive their car into his shop and start pillaging. He had plenty of time to arm himself with guns from his own house.

Posted by Siaharok:
If you're referring to when the thugs attacked Harry's gun store, then that's not really a fair comparison. It was basically a home invasion. Harry lived next door to his shop. He saw the thugs drive their car into his shop and start pillaging. He had plenty of time to arm himself with guns from his own house.

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No, it wasn't a home invasion. His house is completely separate from his shop. If you had bothered to read the article you yourself posted, you would know that it clearly states that they're about 100 yards apart. They invaded his place of business, not his home.

Harry is a highly experienced gun owner with years of experience with various weapons, including Class III. Now he could've rushed over to his shop with nothing but a snubbie and five rounds, which according to some misguided souls is "plenty" of protection against seven heavily armed perps.

But he firmly and wisely rejected the "Aw shucks, five rounds is enough for any situation" lunacy---and proceeded to arm himself with a submachine gun (and three full magazines), an AR-15 rifle (and two 15-round magazines), a fully loaded semi-auto shotgun and a fully loaded revolver.

An experienced shooter like Harry ended up firing over a hundred rounds from at least two of the weapons. If he had only taken a snubbie and five rounds with him, he would've been killed that night.

Thanks for the article, it helps my argument a heckuva lot more than it does the "I could've taken Iwo Jima with my five round snubbie" crowd.

Seriously? You're comparing what happened to Harry to CCW? I don't know what to say other than...okay.