What state is the OP in? Rules for private sales vary from state to state.Why should he? There is no law requiring that, and buying and selling guns is not a crime either.
What state is the OP in? Rules for private sales vary from state to state.Why should he? There is no law requiring that, and buying and selling guns is not a crime either.
If you live in a state where there is no limitation on how many guns you can purchase in a set amount of time and the two other guns were sold legally, on paper, with all the right forms. Then I don't see the issue.
"The demonization of firearms is proceeding according to plan."I can't understand why everyone thinks this is suspicious.
Nothing illegal has happened.What state is the OP in? Rules for private sales vary from state to state.
While there is no record keeping requirement, keeping a copy of the driver's license and permit or CCW would seem a good idea so that you can prove you made the mandated checks. While not necessary in law, this could stop an investigation going any further. Since you are sure you didn't do anything illegal, there doesn't seem to be much to be worried about other than being inconvenienced by any enquiries that might take place.Nothing illegal has happened.
I'm NC. On handgun sales in my state the buyer must have a CCW or a permit issued to the sheriff in the county they live in. These are buyer requirements. Private party sellers have no record keeping requirements. A seller typically varifies age and NC residency via looking at a drivers license then looks at permit or CCW.
My SOLE criterion for dealing with LEOs is the letter of the law, nothing more, nothing less.And, if you just came into a large sum of money and decided to start buying AND SELLING guns with that money you have some explaining to do. I am sure the OP has done nothing wrong, but you must admit it raises flags.
cottonmouth said:Sure are a lot of nervous folks here! If I had done nothing wrong why would I pay a lawyer to tell the BATFE that when I could do it myself. Now if they are taking you in and reading you your rights it might be a different story. If you know you have not committed a crime and are not charged with a crime tell the truth and use the money you would have paid the lawyer to but more guns!
J.B.
duns said:What state is the OP in? Rules for private sales vary from state to state.
Now suppose that B, living in this same city, later resells the gun to a third party, C, in this same city. Suppose that B denies ever having purchased these pistols, or even interacted with A. Maybe B just doesn't want to deal with the ATF, or maybe he committed some crime with them. And suppose C also commits some crime, and is caught, and thereby the ATF comes into possession of these pistols. C, quite accurately, may say that they were purchased from an individual in this city, but not be able to identify that individual.
Should the ATF then decide to make an issue of this, they'd possibly try to convince a jury that the OP, A, had sold the pistols directly to C as part of a straw purchase, and then lied to them by naming individual B. C would obviously have reason to deny this straw purchase, so his failure to identify A is meaningless. And they will argue that A lied to mislead them, and prevent them from discovering the straw purchase.
In this case, the OP would be much better off not having said anything without a lawyer.
That being said, the OP committed no crime and the burden of proof lies upon the ATF. He doesnt have anything to worry about, because he didnt break any laws.OP, if they visit you, just politely tell them that your firearm purchases are none of their business. You purchased them all legally to further your collection. Wish them a nice day and send them on their way.
at being said, the OP committed no crime and the burden of proof lies upon the ATF. He doesnt have anything to worry about, because he didnt break any laws.
TexasRifleman said:I don't know of a state that requires private sellers to keep sales records. May be one, but I've never seen it.
I don't see it as such a big deal. If I were the agent and you pulled the old "call my lawyer" bit it would make me realy start looking at you then. Just tell the truth, from what you told us you are good to go. If you act like you have something to hide they will probe further and further. "Talk to my lawyer" always meant "I'm guilty" to me and I'd beat the brush until I found what I was looking for.
J.B.
Except that doing so is not legally required. You are falling for the "demonization campaign". If I go out and get a winning lotto scratch ticket, I can turn around and buy 10 new pistols of the same make, model and caliber and keep the best of the lot and sell the rest directly (cash on the barrelhead) to anyone legally able to own them. This is not illegal unless I am making my living at it.I think buying three guns of the same model at the same time and then selling two of them soon after would be the one case where I would make sure the sale went through a FFL.
Sure you do. The Land of Lincoln.I don't know of a state that requires private sellers to keep sales records. May be one, but I've never seen it.
I don't know of a state that requires private sellers to keep sales records. May be one, but I've never seen it.
Except that doing so is not legally required. You are falling for the "demonization campaign". If I go out and get a winning lotto scratch ticket, I can turn around and buy 10 new pistols of the same make, model and caliber and keep the best of the lot and sell the rest directly (cash on the barrelhead) to anyone legally able to own them. This is not illegal unless I am making my living at it.
And maybe the ATF agents will take a dislike to him and frame him for gun running.Suppose the OP, A, tells the ATF agents exactly who he sold the pistols to, an individual B, without any error.
Now suppose that B, living in this same city, later resells the gun to a third party, C, in this same city. Suppose that B denies ever having purchased these pistols, or even interacted with A. Maybe B just doesn't want to deal with the ATF, or maybe he committed some crime with them. And suppose C also commits some crime, and is caught, and thereby the ATF comes into possession of these pistols. C, quite accurately, may say that they were purchased from an individual in this city, but not be able to identify that individual.
Should the ATF then decide to make an issue of this, they'd possibly try to convince a jury that the OP, A, had sold the pistols directly to C as part of a straw purchase, and then lied to them by naming individual B. C would obviously have reason to deny this straw purchase, so his failure to identify A is meaningless. And they will argue that A lied to mislead them, and prevent them from discovering the straw purchase.
Please do not rock the boat, comrade. The train ride to Siberia is quite nice.X-Rap said:I think in today's political/legal climate it is a good idea to at least have a bill of sale for private transactions. If it only has a name address and DL number you will have something to hand over to any LE who might question the disposition of a gun that was tracked to you.
You don't have to invite them in for tea but a simple please wait here and I will get you a copy of my bill of sale will maybe save you some grief.
I think the fact that they can review and investigate multiple sales is clear so if everyone behaves accordingly there shouldn't be any trouble, that and work through the political side to get this rule abolished.
I'm not handing ANYTHING over without a valid search warrant.I think in today's political/legal climate it is a good idea to at least have a bill of sale for private transactions. If it only has a name address and DL number you will have something to hand over to any LE who might question the disposition of a gun that was tracked to you.