Multiple Handgun Purchase Question

[Greg G]

I am considering buying three handguns from a dealer. These are are older curio and relic type pistols that came from a collection but are not antiques. The dealer told me if I buy all three at the same time, he has to file a multiple handgun purchase form with the ATF. I looked it up on the ATF website and it says if you buy more than one handgun within 5 working days from the same dealer, he has to file the form. My dealer recommends I space out the purchases over a period of time to avoid having the multiple handgun form filed on me. My question is, if I am a law abiding citizen and have purchased the guns legally, what is the big deal. He seems to think I will end up on a list of potential terrorists. He said he has been called before by ATF agents asking questions about individuals who he had filed the form on in the past. If anyone has an opinion on this I would appreciate the input.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

I bought three identical handguns from a dealer once. He did have to fill out the forms but I never heard any more about it. If you are a law abiding citizen I see no reason for the ATF to be asking questions about a completely lawful transaction.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

It's no big deal other than his paranoia. If you do a bunch of multiple purchases within a short period of time, it will raise a red flag to ATF and they'll check to see what's up. Even that isn't a problem if you still possess the guns.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I bought two at once when I lived in the People's Republic of California, and had to fill out an extra form. It was an extra three minutes' worth of wasted time and ink.

 

[kbsrn]

I think that

it is a good thing to stay off of government lists whenever possible. God knows how they will be misused in the future. Think the Clinton audit of enemies by the IRS.

 

[Greg G]

Guys,
Thanks for your opinions. Larry, Hkmp5sd and Standing Wolf, I have similar thoughts as yours. If you bought a lot of guns at one time or did it often, I could see where they might get interested in your activity. I really can't see where me legally buying 3 little pistols would have them too stirred-up.

kbsrn, good point. It is with this in mind that I started this topic. I just don't like the idea that I need to fear our government when acting in a law abiding manner. I'm not naive, I know bad things happen to innocent people.

 

[Preacherman]

I got caught this way once... did a couple of multiple handgun purchases, and out of the blue got a phone call from the ATF to advise me of the penalties incurred by illegal "straw" purchases. It really pissed me off, as they seemed to be assuming that I was guilty of this, rather than asking me the reason for the purchases. I explained (as politely as possible ) that I had bought the guns for myself.

Turns out that if you do multiple handgun purchases, the serial numbers, etc. go onto an ATF database, so that if that gun is recovered later in a crime, they already have your details, and don't have to go running around recovering Form 4473 from the dealer to see who bought it. Basically, it seems to me like a back-door route to gun registration.

 

[Leatherneck]

Basically, it seems to me like a back-door route to gun registration.

Not even back-door, Preacher: more like side-entrance. I love that part: "they already have your details."
The water gets warmer and warmer and warmer...

TC
TFL Survivor

 

[patentnonsense]

LISTEN to what your dealer is telling you: you don't want red flags by your name. Maybe one doesn't hurt noticeably, maybe two don't, but every one raises your target profile.

 

[Greg G]

Thanks for the input guys. I forgot about the serial numbers being recorded. I guess I will just pick these up one at a time since I'm not in any kind of a hurry for them. They are pieces I am buying for my collection. I don't want those knuckleheads recording the serial numbers in their database and I don't need any red flags.

 

[MikeB]

I usually don't have the money to buy more than one if 5 days, however my father bought 5 identical 1911 frames in one day. He, my brother and I like to build our own 1911's. It's a great way to have one in every concievable caliber.

Anyways he did get a call from the ATF asking what he was doing with 5 indentical handguns. Of course they weren't really handguns, just 90% frames, but 90% frames are transfered the same as a handgun. Long story short, he told the agent he and his sons were using the frames to build 1911's. He ended up having a very long, very friendly - his words - discussion about the merits and fun of building your own from the frame up.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

the serial numbers, etc. go onto an ATF database, so that if that gun is recovered later in a crime, they already have your details, and don't have to go running around recovering Form 4473 from the dealer to see who bought it.

If you are buying from a dealer, what difference does it make if they have the serial number in a database for instant recall or they have to spend a couple of hours going the 4473 route? They still have the serial number and it still points to you. As long as dealers are required to do the 4473 and keep a bound book, "they already have your details."

 

[Greg G]

It probably wouldn't matter much on modern guns as there would be a pretty good paper trail on most of them. Two of the guns I am buying are WWII bring-backs that have sat in private collections for almost 60 years. They have probably changed hands privately more than they have been transferred through FFL holders. The other pistol is a Colt made in 1909. I was told the previous owner had it for 25 years before he died. Prior to him, who knows who had it?