Joe Demko
Member
The fact is that the penultimate .357 magnum defensive load of all time,
"Penultimate" means next to the last. It can also mean of or relating to a penult, which is the next to the last syllable in a word.
The fact is that the penultimate .357 magnum defensive load of all time,
Just think....all of those police agencies fooled by mere marketing.9mm... New Jersey Highway Patrol, Arizona Highway Patrol .
357 Sig.... Texas Highway Patrol, Montana Highway Patrol, North Dakota Highway patrol, Virginia Highway Patrol, New Mexico Highway Patrol, North Carolina Highway Patrol, Tennessee Highway Patrol, Delaware Highway Patrol, Rhode Island Highway Patrol, Oklahoma Highway Patrol.
40 S&W... Louisiana Highway Patrol, California Highway Patrol, Michigan Highway Patrol, Oregon Highway Patrol, Indiana Highway Patrol, Maryland Highway Patrol, Wisconsin Highway Patrol, Mississippi Highway Patrol, Nebraska Highway Patrol, Nevada Highway Patrol, Utah Highway Patrol, Washington State Patrol, Colorado Highway Patrol, Illinois Highway Patrol, Alaska State Police, Ohio Highway Patrol, Alabama Highway Patrol, Vermont Highway Patrol, Idaho Highway Patrol, Kentucky Highway Patrol, Connecticut Highway Patrol.
45 GAP ..... Georgia State Highway Patrol, Florida Highway Patrol, New York Highway Patrol, Pennsylvania Highway Patrol, South Carolina Highway Patrol.
45 Auto.... West Virginia Highway Patrol, Maine Highway Patrol, Kansas Highway Patrol.
Just think....all of those police agencies fooled by mere marketing.
If only were those police agencies as clever as you are Boris....You were, so why couldn't they?
We've already covered that with the Speer 180g .40 compared to the Speer 185g .45.edit: Still waiting to see them 40 loads that at the very least equal 45 loads apples to apples....
If only were those police agencies as clever as you are Boris....
Maybe you should write to them and tell them the error of their ways.
Who knows, you might save some officer's life by getting him to ditch his .40 for a 9mm.
No idea what you're talking about, sorry.You are horrible at guessing. Couple that with the other questionable comments you've made, and the statements you've had to back-peddle from in order to qualify, I'd say your credibility needs some damage control.
I know that when a soldier needs his sidearm he needs it every bit as much as a cop does. Hell, i'd say that when he reaches for it, he needs it more than the cop does. The solider is fighting to protect his unit and his nation. Not just himself or a small handful of victims.Then you know that the role the handgun plays in war is insignificant at best.
The same cannot be said of the handgun's role in police work.
Sorry, i meant ultimate."Penultimate" means next to the last. It can also mean of or relating to a penult, which is the next to the last syllable in a word.
While your information is factual, you are using the largest projectile the .40 will shoot, it least in a commercial loading. The .45 can be stoked with an up to 230 gr round.Here's another good example....
Remington Golden Saber ammo:
180g .40 from a 4" barrel
mv = 1015 fps
me = 412 ft. lbs.
vs
185g .45 from a 5" barrel
mv = 1015 fps
me = 423 ft. lbs.
So there's only 11 ft. lbs. of energy between them, same velocity, and the .45 was shot from a longer barrel.
Shoot them both from a 4" barrel and the .45 will have less velocity and less energy than the .40 round.
Here's the link...
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/handgun/golden-saber-hpj.aspx
The .45 is going to put a far larger hole in the bad guy- and do it at a much lower pressure level, as Boris has pointed out repeatedly.180g .40 from a 4" barrel
mv = 1015 fps
me = 412 ft. lbs.
vs
185g .45 from a 5" barrel
mv = 1015 fps
me = 423 ft. lbs.
So there's only 11 ft. lbs. of energy between them, same velocity, and the .45 was shot from a longer barrel.
Shoot them both from a 4" barrel and the .45 will have less velocity and less energy than the .40 round.
Here's the link...
http://www.remington.com/products/am...saber-hpj.aspx
I have posted the gel tests of some of the hottest ammo on the market, apples to apples, all in the same brand, almost all using the same excellent Speer Gold Dot JHP, and the fact is that 9mm provides almost equal or even superior performance to all the major calibers in FBI spec gel testing, with the exception of .45acp.
I used those loads because Boris wanted an apples to apples comparison (similar weight bullets, same maker, etc...).While your information is factual, you are using the largest projectile the .40 will shoot, it least in a commercial loading. The .45 can be stoked with an up to 230 gr round.
No, the .45 is going make a slightly bigger hole.The .45 is going to put a far larger hole in the bad guy
Sure, I never said otherwise.BTW, there are numerous 185gr .45acp loads in the 550-600fpe energy range if you want to drive them to more .40S&W like pressure levels.
Split hairs much?The numbers I saw don't support that statement. 9mm provides almost equal or even superior performance to some other major calibers may be more accurate, although somewhat less dramatic.
No bowling pin has ever tried to attack me.If you ever shoot bowling pins you will understand the advantage of larger, heavier bullets.
Everyone i know that uses a .357 magnum uses 125gr JHPs. Based on it's legendary reputation, why would you carry anything else? (trail scenarios or hunting excluded). The round is considered to be so effective, and was so popular that the .357 sig was specifically designed to mimic it's ballistics.Everyone I know of uses the hottest round they can handle for PD.
I think any of those would work extremely well.I use Federal's hottest .40sw load for PD, or .45+p from Cor Bon depending on which gun I'm carrying. Back up is always 5 rounds of .357mag handloads in a snubby.
You seem to have a very simplistic view of things my friend. "There's no such thing as 40+P, there's no such thing as 'full house' loads, a .45 is only .05 bigger than a .40"No, the .45 is going make a slightly bigger hole.
0.05" to be exact, if neither round expands at all.
And with equal expansion the holes will remain very close in size.
Benzino: No one is saying .40 is not effective. We're just saying it is not more effective.
That's what I pointed out what the OK Dept. of Corrections manuals states in post #94. Sounds as if they don't care what you carry, .357 or 9mm or .40. They don't even tell you what gun; carry a Smith revolver, or a Glock or "equivalent" (I imagine an XD, M&P, Walther p99, or other striker-fired pistol).I do not think it would be less effective either! My point is it is more of a personal choice, and to state that half the agencies in the USA choose this because of a marketing gimick, and not because of actual inteligent thinking is rediculious and biased.
My father was a state policman for over 30 years. Last year he gave me a "one shot stop data sheet" compiled of police agencies and fedral agencies as well. In that data sheet the 40S&W was a little more effective than 9mm, and barely less effective than 45acp or 10mm. A good hollowpoint bullet in any of the major calibers is going to be very effective and is not worth arguing about the differences. IMHO someone who sets out to down talk any of the major calibers has a personal agenda, and something against it personally. When things get personal it clouds peoples ability to rationally discuss the matter at hand.
How much do you want to bet that those rounds were fired from barrels of differing lengths?From the DT chart i listed:
230gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1010fps - 15.25" / .95"
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1275fps - 13.00" / .76"
Agreed.A good hollowpoint bullet in any of the major calibers is going to be very effective and is not worth arguing about the differences.
How much do you want to bet that those rounds were fired from barrels of differing lengths?
I'll be the .45 was fired from a 5" barrel while the .40 was fired from a 4" barrel.
Which would make the data biased toward the .45.
That's not science.
Fire them both from equal length barrels and then tell the difference.
Exactly!....and to state that half the agencies in the USA choose this because of a marketing gimick, and not because of actual intelligent thinking is ridiculous and biased.
Been there, done that.The original test results were fired here on THR. Search the archive, the pistols used for all testing are listed.