Gun Misconceptions in Law Enforcement

just the usual "you could hit someone in the pinky with that and they'd spin around and drop dead from the shock"

If you think you need more than 18 pistol rounds for something, you don't need a pistol, you need a rifle and 100+ rounds of ammunition (a typical "combat" load).

Gee, Murph, each one of my magazines holds 18 rounds...and I carry 3 of them.

Ammunition commonality does have a certain advantage in combat, not so much in law enforcement.

had a so called firearms instructor in my department tell officers that the Glock wasn't safe to carry a round in the chamber since it didn't have a safety

Military, but . . .

A lot of the guys on my boat thought that a 00 buck load from our 12 gauge Mossberg 500s would knock a man flying backwards through the air, Hollywood style, were he hit with one.

It was believed by both my command and squadron that loading an M16 magazine to capacity would exhaust the springs prematurely and cause failure, thus, only 20 rounds were loaded, vice 30.

It was believed (again, by both command sqaudron) that during weapons turnover, the ideal method of inventorying and verifying round count was to drop a magazine and eject a live round on the deck of a rolling ship. Bullet setback, rim erosion, negligent discharge due to unnecessary handling, and loss of live ordinance were all brought up and summarily ignored. :banghead: Press-checks were mentioned and discarded as "just not the way this Chief's Navy operates, son!"

About a dozen guys at a qualifying gun shoot also thought I couldn't make a smiley face on a B27 head at 25 yards with an M16. I won a couple beers off that "misconception".

The level of skill and competence in police officers varies widely (and I'm being as understated as possible here...). I've known badges that could teach just about any college level course in the various skills and knowledge needed to be a street cop... and others that were so dense that you had to keep things simple for them.... very simple.

Every one I worked with over many years were all individuals and just as likely to have misconceptions as ordinary citizens.... The one topic that really sticks out for me was the initial reaction that many had when AIDS first became public knowledge (and we had already been handling the resulting death scenes without a clue about them until we were notified, some times six months later...) back in the eighties. At that time there was little known, infection protocols still hadn't been developed, etc. In that time all a guy on the street had to say was the word aids and otherwise sensible officers would jump back as though they were dealing with something like ebola. I was actually on arrest scenes where officers walked away from possibly infected persons, fearing the contact so much that they wouldn't do their jobs....

When I was in the Marines I was also a motorcycle courier. We had to ride in pairs and since we were corporals (E4), we were issued M16A2's. We tried explaining that if we ever took fire that we had virtually no chance to defend ourselves. Riding while carrying an M16 meant that we had to have it slung diagonally over our head and it would always end up against our back. Lets ignore for the moment that it's nearly impossible to even get it in our hands while ridding because you would have to do it one handed.

So we explained to our Company CO that we could really use a sidearm along with our rifles and he said that since we were not E5's that we had to use our issued rifles. He went on to explain that it was possible to fire them one-handed and he knew this for a fact. As he continued to explain, sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction, he told us how he did it after seeing it done in a movie!!! He did advise us that if we were not satisfied we could take it up with the Regimental CO.

The Regimental Sgt. Maj. was always really nice to us, often have someone get us coffee and make us sandwiches while on our nightly runs as couriers, so we decided to approach him about how we should go about this. He told us to write up a proposal and give it to him so he could review it and give it to the CO. We carefully worded our proposal and once we were satisfied that we had justified why we needed a sidearm in addition to our rifles we handed it to the Sgt.Maj. Well after a week and not hearing anything we assumed that it was denied. A few days later we were told to report to the CO and needless to say we were hoping it wasn't for a butt chewing. However much to our surprise he granted our wish for an M9 sidearm and.............


...... we were even issued MP5's to replace our M16's.

We were definitely the envy of our whole regiment.

had a so called firearms instructor in my department tell officers that the Glock wasn't safe to carry a round in the chamber since it didn't have a safety

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And?

KenW. said:

And?

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So Glocks are unsafe?

So Glocks are unsafe?

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All the LEO negligent discharges with handguns I know of (and I'm in the field) involved Gaston Glock's "perfect" sidearm; so, yes. I refuse to carry one. Qualified with a "glock fotay", but will not carry one. I greatly prefer a grip and/or thumb safety to accompany the safety between my ears.

But that's a topic for a different thread.

I went through a police academy back in the late 70s. Out of the class, 18 rounds would not nearly be enough. I took honors with a 248 out of 250. The only reason I did not get 250 is the nimrod next to me put two shots in my target. To this day I think it was on purpose....chris3

"All the LEO negligent discharges with handguns I know of (and I'm in the field) involved Gaston Glock's "perfect" sidearm; so, yes. I refuse to carry one. Qualified with a "glock fotay", but will not carry one. I greatly prefer a grip and/or thumb safety to accompany the safety between my ears."

Carry and shoot a Glock 22 without ever having a problem or ever hearing of anyone having a problem. Carried an H&K P2000 in my previous career, no safety, only ND ever heard of was an idiot goofing off in a fast food bathroom. This wasn't a small department, it was a federal agency. If my boss says "This is what you'll carry." then that's what I'll carry. I don't think there is a gun out there that I'm too scared of to carry.

All the LEO negligent discharges with handguns I know of (and I'm in the field) involved Gaston Glock's "perfect" sidearm

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What were the causes of the NDs? If you can eliminate the cause (human error, those guns don't go off by themselves!) you can eliminate the reason to not carry them. Seems to be a lot of NDs of Glocks due to holster edges hitting the trigger.

ND's

I have seen or known the coppers who while holstering a revolver or a autoloader in an old style duty hoslter had the strap go between the trigger and the trigger guard and when the gun was pushed down into the holster the gun went off and took out the guys knee/thigh as he stood infront of the gun locker. This happened twice, two different guns two different deputies. Solution 7000+ new holsters and a training video. It happens. How many PD station armories have holes in the ceiling? Murrphys law. We just thank God it wasn't me.

I have been in a running gun battle in Africa where we picked up the AKs to keep being able to fire on extremist durring an uprising on the Ivory coast. We where 50/50: AK/M16A2 on the last couple of days. Everyone including me had one AK with 40 rds, and one 16 with 18 rds at the end of it. I also had an M9 but shared those 45 rds with LT and Co. CMDR after they ran out, leaving me with 7 rds at the end of it. Those 7 became a life saver later in Yugo.
Glocks will go off upon separation of upper and lower receiver if a round is left in the chamber. Seen it 3 X's and its a very lucky thing no one was hurt.

Glocks will go off upon separation of upper and lower receiver if a round is left in the chamber. Seen it 3 X's and its a very lucky thing no one was hurt.

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Isn't is because you have to pull the trigger? And like ... pulling the trigger with a round in the chamber makes it go off?

^^^^ This plus who leaves a round in the chamber when breaking down a gun?

For the record I do not own a Glock. Never have and never will due to the awkward grip angle, but that does not make them an unsafe gun.

Shawn

I have been in a running gun battle in Africa where we picked up the AKs to keep being able to fire on extremist durring an uprising on the Ivory coast. We where 50/50: AK/M16A2 on the last couple of days. Everyone including me had one AK with 40 rds, and one 16 with 18 rds at the end of it. I also had an M9 but shared those 45 rds with LT and Co. CMDR after they ran out, leaving me with 7 rds at the end of it. Those 7 became a life saver later in Yugo.

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Could you expand on this? I'd be interested in hearing the complete string of events....

I saw a history channel special on the AR-15 where an LAPD SWAT officer said the ak-47 was designed to shoot through tanks. Never heard that one before. They were talking about the LA bank robbery shootout. It was california so I wasn't too surprised.

Gun Misconceptions...

Anyone want to share one of their stories of goofy expectations among CCW folks, police, military etc?

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I think the OP was directing this thread toward knowledgeable gun owners who might have come across misconceptions out amongst the not-so knowledgeable users of guns in our world. But a few comments here show us that some members were in fact answering the OP with stories of THEIR OWN goofy misconceptions and expectations regarding firearms they've been around.

I think the OP was directing this thread toward knowledgeable gun owners who might have come across misconceptions out amongst the not-so knowledgeable users of guns in our world. But a few comments here show us that some members were in fact answering the OP with stories of THEIR OWN goofy misconceptions and expectations regarding firearms they've been around.

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When I was reading this thread, that irony wasn't lost on me, sir.

Glocks are unsafe.

Good. That's settled. I had an ND with a Glock once--and I thought it was MY fault (you know, for pulling the trigger with a round in the chamber). Glad to hear it was just the gun.



The NJSP use to have HK P7s. When they retired them, one reason was expense; it is rumored that another reason was NDs, though that is hard to imagine.

Back to topic:

I had a conversation with a Statie here a while back, and I mentioned that I was carrying a primary and back-up gun. He asked why, and I gave him my (standard, but true) line about every SD instructor I've taken classes from having recommended a back-up, and having carried one.

He paused. "Maybe I should think about one."