ATTENTION GLOCK FANS M&P making us look bad

Will it [the M&P] do something that a Glock WON'T do?

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.....Look good

Seriously though, I prefer my M&P9 FS to my Glock 19. Ther ergonomics of the M&P are what put it above the Glock for me. As has been said, the Glock has remained virtually unchanged for 30 years, that leaves a lot of room for competitors to improve, and they have.

The Glock is a great gun, as is the M&P. My Glock jams occasionally, my M&P has been flawless. I have no problem concealing either, so the M&P gets the call before the Glock most everytime.

Grayhambone, perhaps I was a bit hasty in my wording, but if Glock hasn't already lost the top spot it's definately losing ground. The Russians came up with their own Glock knock off, S&W is gaining ground with LE quickly.

Don't get me wrong, I personally like glocks the most, but there are other platforms gaining fanbase just as the Glocks did.

Oh and you said when everything improves?
what are these so called improvements going to do next???
haha make a SD version?

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Gray, you made a blatantly biased post. There are many people posting here that show support for the M&P for valid reasons aside from it just being "the best" and "the one and only". There are also people doing the same for Glock.

A major enhancement coming for the M&P is the new stock trigger. What has been the most major upgrade from Glock? And how long did it take to be implemented?

Also, the M&P is becoming very common in the LEO community, and is taking some of Glock's business.

I am all for everyone having their own opinions, but I am not going make myself look like a fool by saying that one is better than the other and causing an argument. If you want a Glock picture thread, then start one with that title. Starting an argument really is not needed.

besides prettyness glock has it
that's why other guns decided to build something like a glock
took the same drawing and went from there

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And just a heads up, the Glock was not the original DAO, polymer framed handgun.....HK beat them to it

Here's my 27,21 & 22

Of the big 3, my preference is:

#1: M&P
#2: Glock

and a distant 3rd is the XD.

I do not presently own an M&P, have one Glock. If the M&P was offered in 10mm, I would not own the G20.

Ok, you made me do it. Here's a couple of pictures of my biggest GLock.........
My single stack 1911 project seen elsewhere in this forum is named Sally. Sally is my sweet lady, my precious. My fine, and gently handled piece of curvy, (shall I say sexy) beautiful art.
This here, well. This is Bertha. Bertha is big, and she be large, and she be powerful. Bertha be ready for bizniz.
Sally is for carrying in a leather holster, in society under the rule of law.
Bertha, well, she rides in a blackhawk thigh rig and does high count drills with the locals, and she's won't go to work for real unless there ceases to be any law..........

SharpsDressedMan said:

Glock grip angle. I keep hearing that. I shoot Glocks, CZ's, BHP's, S&W 3rd gen autos, Walther P99, 1911's........well, you get it. I never have a problem with any of them. The grips are different. I just adapt. Don't own an M&P yet, but why would I need to? Will it do something that a Glock WON'T do?

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I like that one too! You hear "love my 1911 grip angle, but hate Glocks" Guess what? they are virtually identical!

I disagree... The angle is different; even if only a few degrees.

And a few degrees can make a big difference.

I like that one too! You hear "love my 1911 grip angle, but hate Glocks" Guess what? they are virtually identical!

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Sometimes a small difference is a really big difference.

Ok, I own both 1911's and Glocks so I can be snarly in a credible way. Here's the deal with the grip angle issue. It's not so much the angle of Glocks, as it is the hump on the BOTTOM of the REAR of the grip. For the average shooter, the bottom of the rear of the grip rides on the hand enough where the hump is to push the front sight up into the air. If you look at the photos of the Glock 21 I posted a few posts higher in this thread, you'll notice that I removed that hump. There are number of techniques, what I did was cut a pie shaped piece out fo the grip on both sides up to about where the pin hole is BEHIND the magazine tube area. Then I mashed it in a vice, plasti-welded it, sanded it smooth, then stipled everything to hide where the work was done.

This does not change the grip angle at all, but it does change the circumference of the grip at the bottom of the grip. Now when I come out of holster both my 1911, and my glocks are pointed naturally at the same place.

Note: The 1911 in the photo used by JDGRay (thank you JD by the way,) note the mainspring housing on the 1911. It is arched. Many 1911 fans run a flat rear mainspring housing. If a flat main spring housing were placed up against a stock glock with the hump in place, (like the one in that photo, not the glock I built in my photo,) then you wuold see a MAJOR difference in where the backstrap of the gun would rest in your strong-hand palm.

Its not the angle that gives glock the nose up attitude, its the fact that the trigger gaurd is very close in proximity to the 1911, but the back strap allows a much higher grip . This allows the Glock muzzle to rotate up because the rear pivots down from the trigger gaurd, to where it stops in the web of your hand. Since the Glock rides lower in the back, but the same as a 1911 in the middle, its nose goes up. After a few draws, its all good!

Put one of these on your Glock, and it points just like a 1911
http://gripforceproducts.com/

Hamburger, your Glocks look like the prototype for the Kimber Solo

Unchanged for 30 years means they got it right the first time!

Ridiculous thread is ridiculous

I have owned and shot M&Ps as well as Glocks (I have owned a G19 since 1998), and even remarked a number of times that the M&P is a "better-feeling Glock," but I hardly think it makes them look bad. It was inevitable that technology would have improved in the ~20 years that have passed. If I needed a new gun, I would look very hard at the new SD series.

"S&W does NOT support the LEO community like Glock does. Got personal experience with this one. They do make some fine handguns though. Got an M&P and like the ergonomics, but overall I like Glock better. I prefer a striker pistol that is not fully cocked all the time."


I think this depends on your department for I have heard quite the opposite. S&W has been onsite with a number of departments that have transitioned over. This is common practice. They offer hands on training not to mention have a mobile gunsmith that has been on site at those departments as well to support the M&Ps. S&W came up with the M&P to be the weapon of choice for US LEO and Military. This has been their all in weapon. This is the case at Springfield Police Department, West Virginia, Detroit PD, Vermont State Police, and many others not to mention the Belgium PD order 20k!!!!!! Belgium PD commented that they were impressed with S&W support of this weapon. Smith continues to support them for they certainly have the most to gain.

I own an M&P and S&W has been spot on with support for it. Turn around has been amazing (I have a very early model and developed a dead trigger issue caused by shear flutter, the issue was resolved within 10 days...they paid shipping and gave me some extra mags for the trouble). S&W went thru some growing pains with the M&P just like glock did with their 1st gen. All of these issues have been worked out. And now glock has lost a significant amount of departments in the US to the M&P. It might be because Glock got to complacent, it seems to look that way. There is no doubt it is a fine weapon but it hasnt evolved much since the 80s. The argument might be it hasnt had to...but then again just the idea of the changeable back straps as much as many will say its a novelty it is certainly not! Glock has done some changes to the gen4, they added changeable backstraps as well and has managed to soften up some of the recoil with the new spring design but it hasnt been without its issues...much of which has been worked out.

I know of very few that have used glock from day one that like the M&P over it. I have given a glock ample opportunity to win me over and I just cant shoot them well. I have used a glock well before I grabbed an M&P. And what I noticed right away that grip on the glock lacked contour, it (up until gen4) was one size. Also the angle does not suit me as well as others. I find the gun to be blocky. And finally I dont like the factory sights. But it hasnt stopped me from putting 100s of round thru a number of different glocks over the years. I certainly dont hate it, it just doesnt suit me as well. I simply just cannot shoot it well. Just my opinion but it is one from a hands on point...so like it or not it is what I feel. I dont think it is a bad gun...it is just not the one for me.

JoeMal said:

Unchanged for 30 years means they got it right the first time

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Nevermind that they are on the 4th generation. Each generation had changes...you can call them refinements if it helps you sleep better.

To whoever is complaining about Glock being 30 years old with small changes, I suggest you look at the AK47, M16, 1911, and 870/590. Age doesn't matter one damn bit if it works. Anything to make that hole in their wallet feel a little more justified, I guess, no matter how idiotic...

I liked the feel of the M&P. But they screwed up by not getting the grip angle right. If they really wanted to replace Glock that's what they needed to do. As it is all they are doing is fighting over the scraps with XD. There are some that just can't get over their learned behavior to shoot a Glock properly, for those there is the M&P and the XD.

Let's see the M&P be tested in the field for a few years before we make claims on who has displaced who. Also this is not a popularity contest. The majority is not always right. It doesn't mean that they are always wrong either. It's just a bad way to judge things.

Like I said before, some can't get over what they have known and will never like the Glock. Even though it does have a better grip angle.
I don't have to tell everyone that Glocks are best and make them think that their gun's suck. I let them shoot my Glock and they come to that conclusion. J/K some like what they have better. That's ok.

To each his own. Just don't be ignorant. Most biases against Glock are due to learned behavior and improper technique. XD's are made in Croatia and do not have the aftermarket parts or availability of factory parts like the Glock. The M&P is the pretty face, lets see what she can do.

Food for thought:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/02/glock-22-kaboom/







This isnt from hand loads either...dont flame me too much either...just sharing this not looking to get torched for it. It isnt a bash its an awareness! The most important part of this is it was NOT a hand load that caused this. I have seen handloads do this to a number of guns but never a factory load...hornady in this case...there was a lot of finger pointing that happen here and I am not sure what ever happened but it was not good for glock considering their reliability record has been spotless for practically 30 years!

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vceh44UK-8I

No flaming from me as long as you were the one who pulled the trigger.
Also from the looks of it I think that's the .40 right? There were issues with factory .40 ammo.
I think we can also say that there have been other Kaboomed brands.

Ah, this was the title of that post. Might want to check that.

This Glock 22 (.40 S&W) blew up while firing reloaded ammunition.

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