Saw my first open carry yesterday

How do you figure that youre behind the curve and lost control because your gun is out of sight? Just because my gun is out of sight doesnt mean Im not paying attention. By having it out of sight, I choose when its presence is to be known, and not telegraph it to the world.

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So you admit it is really your situational awareness that keeps you ahead of the curve. Your concealed gun can do nothing to hinder the criminal until you decide to draw it. Draw it from concealment and hold it in your hand and now the subject of your concerns calls the cops and says (correctly) that you pulled a gun on him. Now you are left explaining to the police why you pulled your gun on the guy on the phone with 911 claiming he didn't do a damn thing but look at you too long.

In retrospect, I would have liked to handle it a little differently. There's nothing positive (besides guilty satisfaction) to come from making someone even more angry on the matter.

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She sounded like someone that wouldn't be smart enough to argue with regarding this considering the way she carried herself in that situation.

Again, how are you coming up with this? I can keep the gun covered until the last second, or I can draw it and have it ready, if I feel the need. Id prefer to have the choice.

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His point is that he can use his gun to deter criminals actively instead of possibly making things more deadly by drawing his gun on a criminal.

So you admit it is really your situational awareness that keeps you ahead of the curve.

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Who ever said it wasnt?

All carrying a gun it the open does, is aide the other guy in his.

Your concealed gun can do nothing to hinder the criminal until you decide to draw it.

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Nor can the openly carried gun. Both need to be drawn to be effective. Neither should be drawn or used as a threat. Some consider the gun carried in the open, legal or not, a threat, and thats something that has to be considered, even if you dont like it.

Youre making an assumption that a gun carried in the open is a deterrent, and I dont buy that. If someone is determined, its not going to deter them, and youve given them an edge someone carrying concealed hasnt.

His point is that he can use his gun to deter criminals actively instead of possibly making things more deadly by drawing his gun on a criminal.

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Again, this is all based on the assumption that people are as impressed by your gun as you are.

Reality is, all it tends to do, is just aggravate and annoy the general populace, and the police who have to respond, especially in areas where its not something normally seen.

If you like the attention, and dont mind dealing with the cops stopping you from time to time, hey, have at it. Me, I hate the attention, and would prefer to just go about my business looking like anyone else on the street.

Then again, it is fun watching the circus at the Walmart when someone who does like the attention goes walking by with the parade in tow.

Some people are so dead set in their ways, no amount of common sense reasoning will allow them to even acknowledge their are benefits to any way of doing things that doesn't fit into their own theories and way of thinking. Oh well.

Here are what the facts are to allow people to make an intelligent decision for themselves:

http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.0/Gun-Facts-v6.0-screen.pdf
Page 12

Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.

Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.

Fact: A survey of felons revealed the following:
• 74% of felons agreed that, "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."
• 57% of felons polled agreed, "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."

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http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw

Captain Jerry Quan, the Commander for Precinct One, where the Wafflehouse is located, confirmed Matt Brannan's story as one in which the open display of a pistol deterred a well armed robbery crew.

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If you want to rely upon your quick draw skills to defend yourself in a situation where the criminal has already chosen you as target because you look like 99.9% of every other Joe Citizen out there, that is your choice (unless your state has made that choice for you.) Personally, I would rather show the criminal that it just isn't worth it and let them decide to wait two minutes for an easier target to come along, or walk down the street one block for the easier target.

My goal is to protect myself and my family from the criminal - not to purge the earth of the scourge of the criminal. I honestly feel that some concealed carry only people are of the mindset that they would rather just be judge, jury and executioner if given the chance to have a confrontation with a criminal so they can be "Hero for a day." That's just not me.

On the other hand, there are those open carriers that like to show their guns on youtube who are looking to be "Hero for a day" by baiting some cop to say something to them about their gun. Every group has it's extremists.

USMARINE 0352 said: "What a coincidence, I saw my 1st one yesterday too.



I was at work and went into a gas station to get a drink where some other cops where and a guy on a motorcyle was open carrying.


The cops said, "What an idiot."



I didn't say anything. But the cops didn't harass him or say anything to him. I have no problem with carry. I think most cops don't. They just think it's wiser to do it concealed."





Was he using some sort of retention holster? If not then he was an idiot. I ride, usually CC, sometimes OC. Gotta use some sorta retention holster when I'm on my Road King.

I'm not commenting on CC vs. OC, just the wisdom of open carry on a moving motorcycle without some sort of retention...

Open carry in certain areas of America is more common then others. Where I live it is very rare.

It used to be legal in California, provided one didn't have any bullets in the gun. OC, with empty gun, more then STUPID, IMO.

Some people in that special land of milk and honey decided to jump on the CCW band wagon. They had public carry gatherings. The cries of outrage could be heard though out the land. Especially from those in Hollyweird.

Jerry Brown, aka Governor Moonbean responded to the cries of distress, and now, in that very special place, they went at least 3 steps backward!

IMO, don't be the turd in the punchbowl.


http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/10/local/la-me-brown-guns-20111011


This ruins it all for everyone.

Ak103k You are assuming that all criminals are armed with a gun. Ever heard the old saying"Don't bring a knife to a gun fight". I'm sure a criminal with a knife would think twice before attacking a person open carrying .
I open carry all the time when hiking, riding horse's or 4 wheelers. Never had anyone say anything about it. Never been robbed either.

I open carry here in NC from time to time, but I prefer to conceal....just a preference.

I believe situational awareness trumps any conjecture regarding open carrying making you a target or a deterrent.

I'd also like to point this out quoted from an article:

Open carry was an advantage in this case because in the video I saw just how fast the GO managed to draw his gun and begin to return fire.

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Practice, practice, practice. IWB draw from underneath a cover garment can happen fast. Go to an IDPA event and see just how fast some experienced competitors can be in real world carry gear.

Quite often I open carry, here in Alabama. I have had 0 problems thus far; but
most of our LEO's [and you fine folk's] know that I am a former LEO myself. If
that makes a difference; I can't say for sure, but I still buy a concealed carry
license every year. Monies raised are used at the Sheriffs discretion; but my
Sheriff [The Honorable Mike Hale] uses monies collected from the "sale" of
pistol license, to support the Sheriff's Boys and Girls Ranches here in Alabama.
So, I don't mind contributing my fair share ($7.50@ year) to this worthy cause.

Go to an IDPA event and see just how fast some experienced competitors can be in real world carry gear.

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And yet...open IS faster. No way around that. For what it's worth...

Sam1911 said:

And yet...open IS faster. No way around that. For what it's worth...

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AND less movement to attract the attention of a bad guy in the convenience store/restaurant/bank robbery scenario. If the bad guy is watching everyone close enough to determine if they are carrying a gun on their belt or not, then surely they are watching everyone close enough to see someone fishing a gun out of concealment.

AND less chance of something going wrong with the motion of drawing the gun such as missing the grab for the cover garment or the gun getting snagged.

Six ,if Oklahoma's permit OC bill gets signed off by the Gov.

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Makes me like Virginia even more.

We have NO laws prohibiting open carry, so it is legal.

For a very long time.

An open carry gun is instantly concealed to women by holding a baby; my wife and I were at Wal-Mart and I was carrying my little one on the opposite hip of my HK in a Bianchi retention holster when an older lady could not help but squeal about how cute my son was. In the course of her conversation with my wife, her husband asked, "Is that a USP?"
"Yep, 40."
"I carry a Kimber in 38 super." he said as he tapped his hip.
The lady was oblivious as she waved, "bu-bye, bu-bye." to our little one.

I carry concealed when I am not wearing higher rise pants (Carharts), I have a funny shape as I am tall but is is all in my legs, if I use an IWB in the work pants, the butt of the grip digs into my ribs if I lean over or sit down. I like Levi 527 as they are low rise boot cut but I do not buy Levis any more and am still searching for another company that makes a low rise jean that is not straight leg.

Most people in MT and CO either don't notice or don't care.

NavyLCDR said:

AND less movement to attract the attention of a bad guy in the convenience store/restaurant/bank robbery scenario. If the bad guy is watching everyone close enough to determine if they are carrying a gun on their belt or not, then surely they are watching everyone close enough to see someone fishing a gun out of concealment.

AND less chance of something going wrong with the motion of drawing the gun such as missing the grab for the cover garment or the gun getting snagged.

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Odds are, one has a better chance of winning the power ball drawing then then foiling a armed robbery by doing the OC.

I am not a peace officer. I carry to defend my family and myself. Not to protect the assets of a soul-less corporation.

If involved in a situation such as this, its a totally judgment call. To draw, or not to draw. I think doing the OC will force ones hand in a direction they could of avoided. If my family is with, it makes it even more complicated. I sure do not wish to draw fire in their direction.

Wearing a holster on ones hip, for the whole world to see, does not make them Clint Eastwood.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I want to go home every night.

then surely they are watching everyone close enough to see someone fishing a gun out of concealment.

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With practice most anyone can draw from IWB and get their first shot off in well under a second. I don't consider that "fishing around."

AND less chance of something going wrong with the motion of drawing the gun such as missing the grab for the cover garment or the gun getting snagged.

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Agreed. My first match I completely missed the cover garment grab because I was wearing a cover garment and a jacket. I grabbed the jacket but not the garment....resulting in a handful of gun and shirt. That under 1 second draw went to over 2 because I had to let go and start over (and cuss). That's why you practice regularly with the gear you'll carry and what you'll be wearing.

I'm not debating which is faster...I'm just arguing that drawing from concealment isn't exactly a slow, tedious affair with the right equipment and practice (and more practice).

Here's a way to have the best of both worlds, for those concerned:

When walking down the street, open carry where allowed so that if a bad guy is sizing you up as an individual target, he can see the gun and simply wait two minutes for you to walk by or go down the street one block and pick out one of the 99.9% of the public not visibly armed.

When you enter the convenience store/restaurant/grocery store/bank, flip your shirt over the gun to conceal it so the bad guy won't come busting in the door and shoot you first (not yet to have ever happened, but ANYTHING can happen).

Best of both worlds.

With practice most anyone can draw from IWB and get their first shot off in well under a second. I don't consider that "fishing around."

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Really? Under a second?

My fastest time EVER was 1.12, from concealment, and that was standing on an indoor range, waiting for the "Beep."

Now you may be a lot more accomlpished than I am -- I am no Jerry Miculek (though I once beat him in a side match...) -- but I do not in any way buy this "most people" business.

I've MET "most people." They ain't that good!

In Las Vegas, NV, I saw a "cowboy" type at the grocery store last night carrying a 1911 openly on hip. I asked him, "Colt, Kimber or Springfield"?

Cowboy turned to me, sized me up, and answered back... "Wilson" with a smile on his face. I had to smile too as I nodded my approval. While he did have lace ups on as opposed to cockroach killer ropin/ridin' boots, he was most certainly an outdoor kinda guy and I doubt anyone with half a brain would willingly give him grief.

While OC is not for me in town, it works for some. More power to them.

There are millions of potential scenarios but i see having a concealed firearm over an open firearm as the greater advantage in the majority of them.

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Disagree. I CC most of the time and OC pretty much the rest, but IMO most of the crimes committed with a gun, i.e. in sheer numbers, are probably robberies in stores, or of people, where the gun is pulled by one perp, money taken and perp runs off. In these cases, for the most part, I'd say OC makes you no target, CC makes you a possible. Where's the advantage in that?

Never heard of a gun store being robbed during business hours.

Stevie-Ray said:

Never heard of a gun store being robbed during business hours.

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It does happen.

...the clerk should have been armed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmF0GJuHz9I


...luckily his buddy was.

Brockak47 said:

I see it all the time here in AZ. Doesn't really phase me

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Pretty much. I think the first time I consciously recall it was as a teen waiting for a table at an IHOP.

I carried CC for thirteen years, now I've OC carried for two years.
I have to agree that predators look for the helpless, weak and unaware, human and animal predator follow this law of nature.
A personal example of many of this in action is when I OC'd to my favorite restaurant in ALBQ. NM.
A human predator was scoping out the people entering the rest. for a possible target, of course, the sheep were completely oblivious, so i walk past the wolf and make brief eye contact, we recognize each other for what we are, sheepdog and wolf, he immediately turns a one eighty and walks down the street, I never see him again.
It's obvious to anyone who's had any real experience with true predators and not just wanna be's, the predators stand out from the sheep like they have a flashing red light on their head, the predators are the same way, they can recognize the sheepdogs in the same way, law of mother nature people, it's why cops don't CC.

i open carry here in kentucky, i'm in monroe county and never had a problem. i've heard bigger cities can cause trouble but that will soon change. there is a statute in the kentucky consitution that forbids city, or county to have anything to do with the open carrying of firearms but some cities try. house bill 500 passed the house and is now gonna be voted by the senate and all indications are it will pass, and if signed by the govenor will penalize any city or city official that violates krs 65.870, 522.020, 522.030. thanks