Cold dead fingers, Really?

Fight NOW. Wasting time contemplating having to make a final stand among the sand bags and ammo cans is just entertaining yourself.

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I am sure many of us are fighting now. I know I am made the calls, sent the letters/emails and made the donations.

I think the question really is asking if laws were passed that made many of us felons if we did not comply. What would you do?

I feel there are enough real patriots in this great land of ours that freedoms that are in our Constitution will be realized for many generations to come.

The day when the second amendment has died is the same day this country dies.

Giving up one's life or way of life for a mere material possession is highly questionable.

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If it were mere material possessions at stake, I would wholeheartedly agree. However, that is far from the truth. Firearms are not mere material possessions friend. To take them away, takes our freedom away. If you wouldn't fight for freedom, what would you fight for?

Jimbo, since King George III was making the calls in the late 1700's do you consider his doings to not be tyranny? It wasn't just a rogue gov't or anything. He was the one making the calls.

It's not about making a point. It's about whether you would rather die on your feet or live on your knees.

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Or about the grey area between having everything you think you should have and incrementally giving up some things so that you can keep living more or less on your feet and your family doesn't suffer the loss of their husband, father, and breadwinner.

I mean, face it -- we have already given up a LOT of the rights the Constitution seems to say we should have. We are not pure Constitutionalists unwilling to "live on our knees." If you want to draw a line in the sand, that's great. But that line has been nibbled and nibbled, and likely will continue to be nibbled. When the choice isn't "GIVE UP YOUR GUNS" but is "you can't buy any more 30 round mags," what then? When it is "add a bullet button?" When it is "no new semi-autos?" When it is turn in the AR you've already neutered with no-full-auto, no bayonet lug, no pistol grip, no high-cap mag no....?"

Soundbites are great, but when the reality doesn't happen like that "Molon Lebe" soundbite, every one starts to quibble. You have already. I have too. Fight the fight that is REAL. You probably won't get the chance to fight the one you dream of.

Sam, plan accordingly, could likely mean to adhere to the true meaning of the 2nd. I agree with you that we need to fight now. I also realize that there are a lot of hypotheticals we are discussing, but, if this was to ever happen then the time for talk and debate would be long past. You would have 3 choices. Fight hide, or become enslaved.

I think the question really is asking if laws were passed that made many of us felons if we did not comply. What would you do?

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Oh, I'm sure we'd all do what many have done...squirrel things away praying against hope that no one ever comes and finds them. Bury stuff in the ground or the walls where it is no good to us or anyone else -- so it can be found by our heirs or someone later and turned in for destruction just like is done with WWII bring-back machine guns now.

You want to make a political statement? Take that stuff you're supposed to turn in and announce to the world that you have it and will not give it up. Call the local police and tell them who you are, what you have, and that you will kill and die to keep it. You'll lose in the end, and pretty quickly, too, but maybe if 1,000 or 10,000 of these events happen, that would make a difference. Whether that difference would be good or bad for us in the end is impossible to say, but it would be a whole lot more effective than burying your guns.

If you have to bury them, the fight is lost.

Well, most if this thread is sad and downright embarrassing. I sure hope the antis don't see this one or tomorrow's headline will read, "25 years of estrogenic food supply has effectively turned the United States into a Kingdom!...Government has won as all the men have laid down their weapons.".

...and Charlie Brown screams, "GOOD GRIEF, people!'.

Sam, plan accordingly, could likely mean to adhere to the true meaning of the 2nd.

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What does that MEAN? Form a militia? Kill folks?

Im pretty sure the 2nd isn't in there to kill people Sam. We are just basically beating our chest here. We are discussing a unlikely hypothetical, and I normally don't do such. Im done.

hso makes the point better than I did.

If you think you're willing to DIE in front of your family, or spend a long sad life in prison, for your own line in the sand on gun rights -- quit your job, volunteer with NRA, SAF, etc. and devote your life to 2nd Amendment activism. Give that gun and ammo money to NRA-ILA, SAF, even GOA or NAGR if you want.

A preacher once said, "I keep hearing that folks are willing to DIE for Jesus, "I'm willing to die for Jesus" they say. Where are the people who are willing to LIVE for Jesus?"

Not trying to take this in a religious direction, if you think you will DIE for gun rights -- that means nothing if you aren't sold-out committed to spending the life you have day-in and day-out in that fight. Your LIFE could be more valuable than the DEATH you say you'll give.

I have approached this question from the angle of probability.

First, who is coming after your guns? It would have to be the US Government and not the State since state laws stop at their borders.

It would have to be an order from the POTUS. So let’s say a law in passed that requires all guns to be confiscated. Prior to this action, there would have to be laws that registered all gun owners so they knew who owned the guns. Also, the 2A would have to be repealed.

Skipping ahead, you registered your guns but did not turn them in at the deadline. Now POTUS orders confiscation. Now let’s think about who will be arriving at your door to get your guns. Let’s say it’s the US armed forces.

Out of 300,000,000 guns, 100,000,000 remain in the hands of the renegades. How are these guns going to be confiscated? Door to door combat? Do you think US troops will fire on their own citizens to carry out this order? Imprisonment? Will due process be eliminated? Do we have enough jails to house the offenders?

I could go on. It reminds me of a line from the Wizard of OZ, “Not no way, not no how”. The worst would be by attrition; the elimination of ammo and guns sales to private individuals. Even then, you can count on the black market for keeping you armed.

If it were mere material possessions at stake, I would wholeheartedly agree.

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Historically, material possessions have not been the issue, but increasingly for the former minority of have-nots who now have significant voting power, material possessions may well be a greater concern than the fundamental rights of this nation.

It may be argued that economic collapse, moreso than anti-gunners, threaten the 2A and other liberties we enjoy.

Also read up on George Soros.

Alexander Fraser Tytler said:

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

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Arkansas Paul said:

If it were mere material possessions at stake, I would wholeheartedly agree. However, that is far from the truth. Firearms are not mere material possessions friend. To take them away, takes our freedom away. If you wouldn't fight for freedom, what would you fight for?

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^^^+1

First, who is coming after your guns? It would have to be the US Government and not the State since state laws stop at their borders.

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One of the problems is, the states are enacting gun confiscation laws (or are trying to.) I have to work for a living and raise my family, while the legislators have all the time in the world being paid by my tax dollars to scheme new ways to screw me.

I've been fighting them with letters and political donations, and in the courts via the NRA and SAF. I will not register my guns. If they pass a magazine ban, I guess I will hide them until the law is overturned or until I can move to a freer state (that'll be a few years because of the job market)

I feel for the other folks in MN. It is very easy for me to move to neighboring SD. I'm already planning on doing it to take advantage of lower taxes, but this just adds further motivation.

Post #16 reminds me of that long-ago day when forced busing came to my community. I was overseas in the service and a letter from my mother mentioned how our entire neighbohood was in an uproar over a court order to bus their kids to a dangerous ghetto school at the other end of the county.
Mom said the wild anger of folks she'd known for years truly frightened her and she thought some sort of insurrection might break out.
I smiled and wrote back, reassuring her that the government would surely back down in the face of such widespread rage, and our neighborhood kids would continue attending our neighborhood schools like they always had.
Yeah, right!
Upon my next home leave, I saw the neighborhood kids milling around in the pre-dawn darkness, waiting for their bus to the ghetto.
Head hanging down, I said to my mom: "If they'll take this, they'll take anything!"
Those words were spoken more than forty years ago, and they're still true today.
Our tyrants don't even have to be subtle about it anymore. They're not the least bit afraid of us. They know us better than we know ourselves.
They know that we are materialistic, self-absorbed couch potatoes who don't even know the names of our local elected representatives, much less their phone numbers or e-mail addresses.
Oops! Look at the time!
Gotta go and get the place ready for the Super Bowl party!

I am a veteran that served faithfully in the late 60's and early 70's. I have seen and witnessed what most of the people here have probably only read about. Yes war is horrible and to take someones life is to take his everything. It also devistates his family and effects his relatives and friends. I know all that. I am 64 years old and in great physical and mental condition. I helped raise a wonderful family. I have a great wife, kids, and grandkids. I also live in and understand what a fabulous country America is. The best parts of my life have already been lived. I did my job in life for my God, family, and country. I have a family that fully realizes who I am and what I believe in. I will try to protect the Constitution of the United States and I will do that with my life. I know and understand that as does my family. Yes, I will stand and fight.

Let's put it this way. Those that rant and rave about "cold dead fingers" aren't likely to do a damn thing. Just like those who brag about being such-and-such when they were....blah, blah, blah... I mean *brag*, not just reference it from time to time as a statement of fact & experience.

If I do have to make a "last stand", I'd rather not do it at my house.

Let's put it this way. Those that rant and rave about "cold dead fingers" aren't likely to do a damn thing. Just like those who brag about being such-and-such when they were....blah, blah, blah...

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Not sure what you're point is. What about those who don't say anything?

It is a good question. Time is drawing near. We do have an alternative though.

The House is on our side. We can add reasonable voices to both the House and the Senate in 2014. And then we can put a real American in the White House in 2016.


Let's get to work on this FIRST!

I have thought about this a great deal, and my hope is that I can stay where I am, live my life as I like and that be the end of it. I am currently looking towards the possibility of needing to eventually move to a more remote part of our nation to do those things. I would rather do that than to "go out in a blaze of glory". But I do believe that we should live as citizens, not serfs. Just hope it doesn't get to the point in which I can't live that way.

My Algonquin Heritage and My Father and Grandfather have instilled into me that beliefs are worth Dying for when it ends your Freedom too live and Choose, and even more for Myself personally the added influence of having been married to my wife a Sicilian for 40 years who was raised within a Cosa Nostra family.Everyday Americans are Dying to protect Us and Our freedom and we should be willing to die here in American as well fighting the Enemy within Our very land.There is a old Algonquin story of a Great Chief who people were ran from their homes and Hunting grounds,after weiry battles and death among His Tribe from the loss of everything He decided with all the support of His tribe,that they would run no more,they would fight. The day come for their stand in a Valley surrounded by their enemy..with His Tribe of Warriors Women and Children and The Aged ,as the Chief sat Upon His horse surrounded by His Warriors he looked up at a beautiful Blue Sky in the bright Sunshine,and said To Them."TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE!!! and They Did...

"I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country."

Spoken by George C. Scott in the film Patton.