We are a Pro Gun site, please stop pandering
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JohnM
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There are.
People who seem to be questioning why they have firearms.
There's no way to know how long people here have been gun owners, but I'd wager the ones who have been shooting for decades see no reason to be apologetic or question it in any manner.
I got my first one in 1947 and have never been without.
Numbers and types have gone up and down over the years as has how much shooting I did, but there has never been a time I questioned my right to them.
I bet you are right about the age and experience john. If they knew what we went through so that they could get their ccw or carry, they would sing a different song. When you don't fight for something it's easy to give it away. Seen it too many times. 5 uncles fought before me and my dad fought in 2 wars, and 2 different armys to defeat tyranny so we could have these freedoms. You can be damm sure I am not giving mine away because some psyco went on a rampage.
michaelbsc
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My lament in a thread a few weeks ago was that I remember one night decades ago being on a date with a cutie named Margaret who dropped her .38 out of her purse in a bar in Atlanta.
No problem. Nobody got upset. Nobody had a carry permit. Nobody had ever heard of a carry permit. She turned red and we laughed. Her daddy wanted her to carry so she did. And l liked him. And liked her. (Ok. Not enough to marry her.)
But we didn't have any trouble then.
I want to know why I can't still order pistols and rifles from Sears like we used to be able to do. Came right to the mailbox. Rural route #1, box 177. Hell you used to be able to order a Tommy gun in the mail but that was before my time.
Maybe if the ordinary community wasn't afraid of the central government then the ordinary community might be a little more helpful to the government when there really are bad guys out there.
But if we're all bad guys then we'll all see nothing and hear nothing.
No problem. Nobody got upset. Nobody had a carry permit. Nobody had ever heard of a carry permit. She turned red and we laughed. Her daddy wanted her to carry so she did. And l liked him. And liked her. (Ok. Not enough to marry her.)
But we didn't have any trouble then.
I want to know why I can't still order pistols and rifles from Sears like we used to be able to do. Came right to the mailbox. Rural route #1, box 177. Hell you used to be able to order a Tommy gun in the mail but that was before my time.
Maybe if the ordinary community wasn't afraid of the central government then the ordinary community might be a little more helpful to the government when there really are bad guys out there.
But if we're all bad guys then we'll all see nothing and hear nothing.
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sniperlongshot
Member
if you believe in our way of life, our constitution and everything it means to be an american, and live in a free country then there can not be a compromise, if there was, we'd be an english colony, or speaking german, japanese, or rusian, everyone here has a right to decide his/her own future, and anyone who doesn't like it is free to go live somewhere else,.....just remember another word for subject of the crown is PEASANT
michaelbsc
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And by "our way of life" I hope we can clarify that you mean as free citizens living in a consensual civil society, not as gun owners vs non-gun owners.
I agree but it seems to me many (not all ) non-gun owners have a religious fervor about the reasons you and yours should see their way of thinking and regard all firearms as evil and unnecessary. A consensual civil society can be led down a path of destruction by leaders who might not see a civil consensual society in the same light as you or me. Again, History of human societies is very clear, see prior post, unfortunately people want things the way they want them not as they are in reality.
As a gun owner, when you have been attacked for 20, 30, 40, 50 or more years simply because you own and use guns, and at every turn the antis have tried to restrict your rights, or make them harder to exercise, simply because they want all your guns gone, with there being no relationship between your guns and crime, one tends to get less tolerant of the antis and their ultimate agenda, which is total gun confiscation.
No compromise, because the antis are not interested in compromise, only total gun confiscation. The ability to own and use guns if one wishes is a core ingredient of freedom.
No compromise, because the antis are not interested in compromise, only total gun confiscation. The ability to own and use guns if one wishes is a core ingredient of freedom.
Deanimator
Member
You say that as though freedom was a GOOD thing. There's a segment of the anti-gun movement who don't think so.
It was only a year or two ago that Canadian leftists, enraged over statements by commentator Mark Steyn, were saying things like, "We don't have such a fetish for 'freedom of speech' here."
Remember back when the anti-gunners had the whip hand and were trying to pass AWB II. Some of them actually wanted to ban the PUBLICATION of firearms and military INFORMATION. One of them told me face to face that the NRA should be "BANNED". Of course he also "wasn't so sure" that the Holocaust was such a BAD thing, but that's another story...
They don't just hate the 2nd Amendment. They hate ANYTHING which would challenge their unrestrained power, including the 1st.
History proves you correct. There are people all over the world in jail for something they said that offended someone in control. Even filming a police action in some places can get you some time in jail. The more I have learned about our Constitution and our founding terrorist fathers the more I have come to respect their knowledge.
Today some think the Constitution is just and old non applicable piece of paper written in an age long long ago that does not apply to a modern society. Thankfully some still believe it is the greatest document ever written and will defend it with their life's blood. For all of us let us hope the ballot ( a real vote and not some fraudulent scam) always wins over the bullet.
Thanks for the chuckle, but good point.
Yes, I see freedom as a good thing, as do other freedom loving folks. You are right though, not only do many of our would be masters see freedom as a bad thing, many ordinary people would be happy to be [strike]slaves[/strike] subjects to the government promising to take care of them.
Yes, let's hope we can fix this at the poles. We have our work cut out for us though. Through lack of vigilance on our part we are on the precipice. Gun rights, among other things, hang in the balance.
I got this from an email this "AM", from "cheaper than dirt", it's about living the warrior lifestyle, and how we as a nation have goten soft, also he mentions what might occur if the govt, shuts down for a couple weeks and half the country on welfare stop getting their checks, I found it a quick interesting read, the secon is a Navy Seal's take on what happened and how to protect from it as best you can,
1-http://loadoutroom.com/3553/start-living-a-warrior-lifestyle/
Surviving an ‘Active Shooter’: Navy SEAL Lessons from Aurora
2-http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=24077&utm_source=EmailDirect.com&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=20120729-Chronicle-Vol1Iss6+Campaign-Rev1
1-http://loadoutroom.com/3553/start-living-a-warrior-lifestyle/
Surviving an ‘Active Shooter’: Navy SEAL Lessons from Aurora
2-http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=24077&utm_source=EmailDirect.com&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=20120729-Chronicle-Vol1Iss6+Campaign-Rev1
buck460XVR
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Maybe it's because of where I live, but I have never been challenged, threatened or even asked seriously about my gun ownership. 'ell, almost everyone around here owns guns. But I have been questioned why I have certain guns by other gun owners. Not a big deal. It doesn't strike me as anti-gun because I know from association that they're gun enthusiasts themselves. Kinda like the folks here on THR. They're here because they're gun enthusiasts. It comes down to the fact that not everyone has the same purpose for tools. It is just a fact and not being anti-gun that some folk don't have a need for high capacity mags or certain firearms. Just as every handyman does not need a cabinet grade table saw. Folks here scream "NO COMPROMISE" but then want other folks to compromise their needs and their opinions. They scream "we'll lose our 2A rights" while trying to muffle other folk's 1A rights. I have no problem saying there are certain firearms and firearm accessories that I will never need or ever desire. That doesn't mean I don't support the right of other folk to. Telling me what to say and how to feel is not conducive to making us friends or me supporting your views. It's easy to win the argument when you stuff a sock in your opponents mouth.
+1, that is what this is all about, unrestrained power. The constitution that they hate so much divided its powers in three spheres of influence as competing elements. Unfortunately, that is out of balance today, but the founding fathers gave us an incredible government and system if we would just stick to their original intent.
Unfortunately, it has been a long time since we operated in that realm of ideology.
jj1962hemi
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You guys (and, hopefully, a gal or two here and there) are great! I think it's a good dialog. I'm OK with people sharing opposing views. I've "met" many Democrats on this site who are fearful that the NRA will become partisan. I was glad for that feedback, as I didn't realize there were so many pro-gun Dems.
Obviously, we all compromise. Catholics vote for pro-choice candidates all the time. I have plenty of "union guys" in my family who held their noses and voted Democrat for years, to support their most pressing issues, then worked on 2A separately. To me, it's the political climate that's the problem (since the 1950s?). I'm OK with no private nuke ownership, even though the Founders didn't exclude massive munitions in what they considered "Arms." Unfortunately, there are dopes out there who think muskets and flintlocks are the only OK weapons.
It's a healthy dialog that's really, IMO, about values. I'm a fan of personal responsibility and of living with the risks that many smart and well-intentioned people don't want to live with (gun control, TSA interference, helmet laws..). Where I am less tolerant is in the views that all of this control will not inevitably lead to a State where we lose all kinds of freedom to the tyranny that is part of human nature. History has proven that concept true so many times, that it's hard to fathom that people think it will be different in our society.
Obviously, we all compromise. Catholics vote for pro-choice candidates all the time. I have plenty of "union guys" in my family who held their noses and voted Democrat for years, to support their most pressing issues, then worked on 2A separately. To me, it's the political climate that's the problem (since the 1950s?). I'm OK with no private nuke ownership, even though the Founders didn't exclude massive munitions in what they considered "Arms." Unfortunately, there are dopes out there who think muskets and flintlocks are the only OK weapons.
It's a healthy dialog that's really, IMO, about values. I'm a fan of personal responsibility and of living with the risks that many smart and well-intentioned people don't want to live with (gun control, TSA interference, helmet laws..). Where I am less tolerant is in the views that all of this control will not inevitably lead to a State where we lose all kinds of freedom to the tyranny that is part of human nature. History has proven that concept true so many times, that it's hard to fathom that people think it will be different in our society.
That is absolutely historical fact. Studying the history of democracy, they always end in a totalitarian dictatorship. That is one reason that the founding fathers opposed a democracy or rule of the majority for a republic where it is rule by law. Too bad we didn't keep that founding principle.
When the masses understand that they can raid the treasury by rule by majority, then that is the beginning of the end of any nation by historical reference. How far down that path have we treaded?
Buck we arent telling them what to do or what to own, but when they choose to ban certain things some of which most of us may not even own, they then challenge our rights to own them. I don't tell anyone what they can or can't have, but I sure a hell won't tolerate someone who is offering mine up as a gesture of whatever they think they are caught with in the moment.
If someone doesn't like something they can just refrain from using or buying it. You don't give up your right to own these things, or before you know it, the things that are important to you will also be on that list. This has been going on a hundred years. we fought hard to be able to own what we own, we just don't want people to get the idea that now we are prepared to give it back , because some madman flipped his lid.
As tragic as it is it's just part of life now a days. These things never go as planned when dealing with the Govt. they ban everything. Not just certain things.
A machine gun , when looked at by the govt" can be any gun, even a pistol, they constantlly say thingsl ike "the glock automatic gun", shoots untill it's empty, the same with any semi auto pistol, people don't know the difference, they think we are all carrying Machine guns, so you cannot make statements like that, Or you will loose all your rights at the sign of weakness.
There are guys here who believe that we should be able to purchase anything the military does. like a Tank, "if you can afford it" or a jet fighter. So we need to temper waht we put out there, right now the world is watching and we need to present a "united front".Most of us just want to be able to go forward not backward in this time of tragedy. I gaurantee you something will occur to take this off the front page just like every other time.
Americans have a short memory and heal quicklly. It's the instinct for self preservation and survival. Sometimes it can be heartless but that's just the way it is.
When I tell a neighboor that anyone with a clean record can own a supressed pistol or auto class 3 weapon, they just stare at me, don't even know what I just said. It only appeals to those who have an interest in it.
I just thank God that this kid didn't have a supressed full auto weapon or he could have done even more damage, as no one would have heard anything with all the background noise and gun flashes. We should be happy he didn't have certain things instead of making excuses for what he did have.
There are a lot of crazy people out there. I have a guy in my area that thinks he is with Homeland security, we checked him out and they never heard of him. Meanwhile he has a truck with official looking decals on it and lights.
He also has phony dog tags, My marine buddy called the unit he claimed to be in, and he wasn't ever there.That is frowned upon as "stolen valor" So you have a lot of dilusional people out there, unfortunatelly it's difficult to sort them out. But giving back things that it took decades to achieve is not the answer, especially when someone offer to give up my ights, let them giv up their own if they so choose.
If someone doesn't like something they can just refrain from using or buying it. You don't give up your right to own these things, or before you know it, the things that are important to you will also be on that list. This has been going on a hundred years. we fought hard to be able to own what we own, we just don't want people to get the idea that now we are prepared to give it back , because some madman flipped his lid.
As tragic as it is it's just part of life now a days. These things never go as planned when dealing with the Govt. they ban everything. Not just certain things.
A machine gun , when looked at by the govt" can be any gun, even a pistol, they constantlly say thingsl ike "the glock automatic gun", shoots untill it's empty, the same with any semi auto pistol, people don't know the difference, they think we are all carrying Machine guns, so you cannot make statements like that, Or you will loose all your rights at the sign of weakness.
There are guys here who believe that we should be able to purchase anything the military does. like a Tank, "if you can afford it" or a jet fighter. So we need to temper waht we put out there, right now the world is watching and we need to present a "united front".Most of us just want to be able to go forward not backward in this time of tragedy. I gaurantee you something will occur to take this off the front page just like every other time.
Americans have a short memory and heal quicklly. It's the instinct for self preservation and survival. Sometimes it can be heartless but that's just the way it is.
When I tell a neighboor that anyone with a clean record can own a supressed pistol or auto class 3 weapon, they just stare at me, don't even know what I just said. It only appeals to those who have an interest in it.
I just thank God that this kid didn't have a supressed full auto weapon or he could have done even more damage, as no one would have heard anything with all the background noise and gun flashes. We should be happy he didn't have certain things instead of making excuses for what he did have.
There are a lot of crazy people out there. I have a guy in my area that thinks he is with Homeland security, we checked him out and they never heard of him. Meanwhile he has a truck with official looking decals on it and lights.
He also has phony dog tags, My marine buddy called the unit he claimed to be in, and he wasn't ever there.That is frowned upon as "stolen valor" So you have a lot of dilusional people out there, unfortunatelly it's difficult to sort them out. But giving back things that it took decades to achieve is not the answer, especially when someone offer to give up my ights, let them giv up their own if they so choose.
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Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Yeah, we think we are supposed to vote for out Senators and that isn't the case at all. It wasn't the case until 1913 with the 17th Amendment. That wasn't at all what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Direct_Election_Senators.htm
Of course, they never intended that the President be directly elected. Such an important decision should not be left to the largely uneducated landowing male masses. It should be left to an electoral college, of which 4 out of 10 states participating in George Washington's election used electoral college's not based on any sort of popular vote.
It is always interesting when we talk about the intent of the Founding Fathers when so many of the things we hold near and dear are things not intended by the founding fathers, even if we think they are.
I do like how we call for the President or other government officials to be tried for treason for suggesting a change to the Constitution because he is, after all, sworn to protect it and we think that means that it cannot be changed, and yet it was because of a change that we have our 2nd Amendment rights. The Founding Fathers did allow for amendments and did make amendments, yet nobody has suggested they be tried for treason who also want the Democrats tried for treason when they question the 2A. For example...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=242747&page=2&highlight=treason+protect+constitution
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=619176&highlight=treason+protect+constitution
The funny thing is, "treason" doesn't even apply, as noted by Art...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=446195&highlight=treason+protect+constitution
Those are just a few examples. The point is that defending your beliefs is fine, but defending them with incorrect information or made up legal code really shows no better understanding for the purported sanctity of the Constitution than is claimed by those wanting to change it. Founding Fathers' intent in all over the board when you read their individual histories and what we think is their intent based on our current experiences certainly may not be.
citizenzen
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How can you be objective if you aren't willing to look at and question this subject?
Not what I was talking about DNS. In any case, if you think that we adhere to the constitution as flawed as it was, so be it. That is not my take on things.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
1. That isn't a High Road attitude.
2. That isn't amonst the rules of the High Road that only pro-gun opinions are allowed (see Rule #1).
3. That isn't High Road manners (see Rule #4).
I think you may be on the wrong forum, gym.
zxcvbob
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I like his style.
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